I Do This for a Living
A show that asks how we can give as much time and energy to the things that matter as we do to the things that pay. I Do This for a Living is hosted by Serenity Bohon - sarcoma survivor, writer, and day jobbist, forever starstruck by anyone who finds meaning at work and in life.
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Visit serenitybohon.com/guest to be on the show.
I Do This for a Living
Do the Thing You Will Regret NOT Doing with Judy C. Harvey
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Joyful Judy C. Harvey is a retired teacher, living a real life Hallmark movie with her high school sweetheart in a small town in Missouri. Judy has been mentioned on the show many times for her college story, which began when almost all three of her children had graduated high school. Judy always wanted to be an English teacher. She loved it, and she loves retirement. She has brilliant advice for finding joy in our work and in life. Plus poetic words to live by like these: Students don’t care what you know until they know you care; I’d rather rather believe the best about someone and be wrong than believe the worst about them and be right; and a poem in the It Worked for Me section that I’ll never forget.
Chapters
6:09 Judy in her own words
9;59 Back to school!
24:17 Growing up on the farm
27:37 English teacher dreams
30:22 English teacher reality
44:06 The joys of retirement
51:47 Judy’s Journey to Joy
1:01:29 Peace of mind takes time
1:08:42 How to enjoy your work
1:22:42 It Worked for Me
Links
Angel Wings by Judy C. Harvey (https://a.co/d/08RQuwb8)
Shawn Achor’s happiness Ted Talk (https://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work)
This episode is sponsored by h34contracting.com
I Do This For a Living is independently produced.
Welcome to I Did This For a Living, a show that asks how we can spend as much time and energy on the things that matter as we do on the things that pay. Sometimes the things that matter pay, and we'll talk about that too.
SPEAKER_01I'm your host, Serenity Bohan. Today's guest is Judy Harvey, often referenced on the podcast, now appearing. She's like a celebrity of the show. I tell her that. She demures, but she is. She's been talked about in multiple episodes, y'all. My mom's episode, her daughter's episode, Valerie, but also Jason Benson's episode. He doesn't know her at all. And he referenced the person who was my mom's friend who went back to school a little bit later in life. And that's what we talk about today. I mean, one of the many things. She's going to talk about what it was like to be a non-traditional student, how much she wanted that, how she made the decision to do it, what it was like. Uh you're gonna love her. And also, we forgot to talk about a very important thing. I mean, she says it's not important, but I think it's important. Judy wrote a book and published it. It is Angel Wings by Judy C. Harvey. I will put it in the show notes. I would love you so much if someone would just buy it. Give her that little gift. If you like her episode, read her book. She she doesn't make a big thing out of it. Maybe she doesn't think, you know, she's gonna be a full-time author or something, so why make a big deal about the one little book she has in the world? But do you know how many people say, maybe I could write a book someday? And she did it. And that is what this whole episode is about, or a lot of it is about, is if you want to do it, do it. If you think you might regret it, don't regret it. Do it instead. So you're gonna really love her. I can't wait for you to meet her. Um, Judy also, even though she was a shoe-in, I was always gonna have her on the show at some point, if she was willing. She filled out the form, the guest submission form, which I wish more people would do. Serenitybohunt.com slash guest G-U-E-S-T. Go there if you're at all interested. And I'm telling you, you're interested. This show is fun. Everyone, these conversations are so fun. So go fill that out if you're interested in being on the show. Um next week we're gonna have someone no one knows. None of you probably know. Um, she filled out the forum, has a new book in the world. I can't wait to talk to her. It's gonna be a fun, fun conversation and kind of the first of its kind because uh of the way she came into my life. Different that most of the people who've been on so far are people I had some connection with before. And she's brand new to all of us, and I can't wait. That's gonna be fun. Also, if you want to read about my thoughts and feelings very, very occasionally, not regularly, SerenityBohan.substack.com. It's called the same thing. I do this for a living. I tend to talk about all the same stuff. Today's episode is sponsored by the wonderful H34contracting.com, delivering exceptional quality and craftsmanship in and near Casper, Wyoming. It is, they specialize in residential remodel. If you talk to Jason, the owner, tell him you heard about it on I Do This for a Living. I would really appreciate it because I really appreciate that sponsorship. It's very generous. All right. Judy Harvey, the I Do This for a Living celebrity coming at you.
SPEAKER_03Hello, Judy. Welcome to my show. Hi, I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01You are a um star of the show. You're like a celebrity. You're like an I Do This For a Living celebrity.
SPEAKER_05Oh no. You know what? I I am intimidated because I am literally following a rock star. You had your nephew on. He is a rock star. Drums, acting scene. I'm thinking, oh, the timing could have been better.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love to hear praise for my Jesse. Oh, yeah, that was such a fun one. And he was so he's he's at so much more peace with his art versus work life than I am, his 50-year-old aunt. But so yeah, I gotta listen to I have to listen to all my episodes again just to keep to get the mentorship because that's really what I'm here for, is for everyone to solve my problems.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I love to solve problems, so let's get started.
SPEAKER_01Okay, excellent. But you really are a celebrity on this show because you've been mentioned in several episodes. If people will recall, my mother talked about you because you're the first friend forever, right?
SPEAKER_05Right. First and forever friend.
SPEAKER_01First and forever friend and editor of her book, her most recent book. Um A girl called Something, right? So good. And which is sitting on my shelf in my a very tall two TBR. I am moving it to the top, but I gotta finish the one I'm reading right now. I can't multitask with my reading. Do you read more than one book at once?
SPEAKER_05I do. I have an audio book going all the time and a physical, well, or an e-book. I read on my iPad a lot. So yes, I have two books in the same genre. In the same genre? Um, whatever I'm listening to. Like I'm reading your mom's book right now. Again, I got to edit it, so I read it, but I'm reading again just for pleasure this time. Um, I just finished listening to an audio book, and then I have one by my bed that I'll be reading. I read a little bit before I go to sleep every night.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's when I end up reading too. I need to tuck it into earlier in the day too, and I'm not so quite quite so tired. But anyway, you were also mentioned on your daughter's episode, Valerie Peavler. If I want to check that out. But also, I don't know if you caught it. Did you catch it? Jason Benson's episode. He talked about, you know, your mom's friend who went back to school. I just was like, he's mentioning Judy.
SPEAKER_05It's just yes, I just smiled. I love it.
SPEAKER_01It's like I have regulars. If we were a sitcom, you're in the show.
SPEAKER_05Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_01So, but so, but let's let you introduce yourself to the I Do This For a Living audience. How would you do that? Who are you, Judy Harvey?
SPEAKER_05Okay, well, I'm a wife, mother of three, grandmother of seven, great-grandma to 11, soon to be 12, and I'm a sister, a friend, a retired teacher, I'll say that now too. A retired teacher. And yeah, that's me in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_01That's a good, that's a pretty big nut. There's a lot going on in there. And um see if you can answer this one. My husband sidestepped this one when he was on the show, but how would your kids or grandkids tell us who you are?
SPEAKER_05Well, I have many names with them. I'm mom, sometimes a mother, ma, ma Judy, Grandma Judy, Mama Judy. And one of them just calls me Judy. I answer to all of them. I know you and Bowie are obsessing about what your grandma names are gonna be, but I roll with whatever they say. And I would just hope they would say I'm kind thoughtful. I hope. Um the little great grands do love to come over here because it gives me a chance to play and I love that. We do tea parties and dress up and play Barbies and baby dolls and Legos. I'm not as good at Legos, but I try, and you know, so yeah, it's just I I don't know, try to have fun, try to be supportive of everyone as much as I can.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that answers that question very well. Because I thought I was gonna have to say, what kind of grandma are you? But that's the kind of grandma you are, totally active in their lives doing things with them. Love it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Love it.
SPEAKER_05And all of them are close. I like that. My children are close. Our son lives just a mile or two away. Our daughters live within 15, 20 minutes of us. So, uh, and the grandkids are mostly close. I have a couple grandsons who live a little farther away, but they're still in the state. And so I get to get to see them all and really enjoy that.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Speaking of that geography being close, you have to weigh in on something Valerie talked about. I want to know what you say to her or or think about what she told us that she thinks she chose her major so poorly because she just chose what she wanted to do and wasn't thinking about where she wanted to live. Do you agree? Do you think that would you have advised for me?
SPEAKER_05I was a little concerned. Yes, I was a little concerned because exercise science and what sh I didn't know for sure if she could do that. She wasn't gonna be a sports trainer, probably around here very easily, you know. But then when she went to cardiac rehab, that was a good field. And uh so that was good. And she she like she said, she was so active in school and athletic, and that's what she was that was her interest, so she went on. But yeah. Now she loves her job in photography, you know, managing photographers, and so she's doing something different and loving that too. So I tell her I tell her I think her degree helped lead to this position. Excellent. She has a you know, she had the degree, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel like she just made the right choices all along the way. In fact, I talked to my sister about Felicity after the episode, and Felicity said something like that. She said, I don't think Valerie's giving herself enough credit for the way she consistently chose what was important to her and moved towards those things, even when there was compromise. Like maybe she would have loved some kind of sports training degree, but what was more important to her is living on that beautiful farm with her husband. And so she made it work together. And that take that took intentional decisions on her part that was really inspiring. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about some intentional, inspiring decisions on your part.
SPEAKER_07All right.
SPEAKER_01Because the reason you've come up so much, partly, is because of your college story.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_01Um, you've been mentioned on the show for it, that you basically you were a non-traditional college student. Will you tell us in your own words why? What what was what was your life path that led you to be such a non-traditional college student?
SPEAKER_05Well, I always wanted to go to college. I think, I mean, ever since I learned to read in first grade, that's your mama, you know, we went to school together, and I have loved reading. And then about sixth grade, we had a teacher, Ms. Thompson, and she also influenced Kathy. We both just she made reading and writing fun, and so we both loved reading and writing. And so that's when I decided I wanted to be an English teacher. And that was my idea. Well, then I invited this cute dark-haired guy to my eighth-grade graduation party, and ended up marrying him when he fell in love and got married young and had three children. By the time I was 22, I had three children already. And so then I became a stay-at-home mom and I thought my college dream was over. I thought, you know, I'll never, I'll never do it. And but I love being a stay-at-home mom, love being there with my children. Like you, you know, all the working moms out there know what daycare is like. It's really difficult to find good daycare, especially I lived in a small town. So I was able to stay home because my husband worked so hard. He worked lots of hours and took care of us so I could stay home. So then one year I found out there was when my kids were older, they were all in high school, I think, junior high high school. They were all older, and I found there was a position in our school, Atlanta school, and they needed uh an aide for kindergarten to help with the kindergarten kids. And it was half a day. I loved it. I thought, ooh, I should teach kindergarten. This is so fun. Well, they just needed me for one year. They they thought that gave them a good start. So the that class moved on. And the next year I was staying home again and I got a call. There was a student who was having difficulty at school. He had torn a bookcase apart and hit his teacher with the board, and they wondered if I would take him on as a I would be his personal tutor and aid. So I did, and I worked a couple years with this student, and I was proud of him because he went from barely being contained in the special ed room to going in the regular classroom, interacting with his peers and everything. And so that was very rewarding. I thought, maybe I should teach special education because I did really enjoy the progress that the students made. And after the second year, he moved away. And so I was called in the superintendent's office and basically fired because they didn't need me. They didn't need me anymore. And so uh the superintendent hated to tell me about it. And I said, you know, I think I'm gonna go to school full time. So he was thrilled, and I came to that point. I'd been taking some night classes here and there, like just one class a semester and building up just because I wanted to and I love to learn. And and so I um started to MACC full-time when I was, I think 36, 37, something like that. And I was a grandma. I had just become a grandma, and at school they did this two truths and a lie, you know, thing, icebreaker. And so my truths that nobody believed was that I was a grandma because I was in my 30s, but uh I went to school full-time and I wouldn't have done that. I have to give credit to my friend Rhonda. Uh she we were talking and she'd always wished she'd gone to college too. And I said, Yeah, I'm really thinking about going to MACC. It's a community college. I said, would you go with me? And she said, Yeah, I'll go with you. So we both went. Yes. She's I tell I tell her all the time, I don't know that I would have had the nerve. I wasn't very brave to go by myself. So she went with me and we took classes. And then, and I and I would sit, I wasn't the oldest one in that down there because there were nursing students. I mean, there are a lot of people who do go back to school, and I would encourage anyone who can or wants to to do it. And another thing, you know, I thought I couldn't financially, well, I found out if you don't have a lot of money, there are grants, there are scholarships that you can get. You know, there's a Missouri grant, a Pell Grant. You can get grants if you don't have a big income. And you know, we were a family of five with just uh Blaine's income. So I was able to get grants and things, and uh then I went to Truman, you know, Truman University for my last two years. Well, not my last two, because I got my bachelor's degree there, and then uh you have to have a master's degree at Truman to teach. And so I got my bachelor's in English and my master's in education. So I have three degrees. I went from nothing practically to three degrees and and then started teaching, and I just uh uh opportunity was open in Atlanta, the school where I'd worked before and where we live, where my Blaine and I went there, my kids went there, my grandkids went there, and I have I think four great grands there now, have some great grands going there now too. So anyway, it's it's it was wonderful. But I yeah, I I'm glad I went later, but it was difficult. It was different, um, you know, to go as non-traditional student.
SPEAKER_01You tell the story in as if you the decision though, you never really bounced on. Was it pretty much always like, I'm gonna do this? Or did you have moments where like I'm not so sure?
SPEAKER_05Well not while I was going. After I started, I was all in. Yeah. I was thinking maybe I would get my two-year degree because M A C C has an associate degree. And then maybe I could uh work to be an a full-time aide in the special education department, you had to have two-year degrees. So I thought maybe I'll do that. But my husband encouraged me, he said if you're gonna spend that time there, you might as well be a teacher. So that's supportive husbands. I know, I know. Really helped. And then when I was younger, I thought I thought that I thought it was that I wouldn't. But once I started going and I had those classes under my belt and thought maybe I could do it, you know. How much of it did Rhonda do with you? She did the first year and a half. I had had enough credits from the night classes that I took that I graduated down there in a year and a half. And then we were going to go to another college, Hannibal LaGrange, but I thought, well, I'll just take a semester at Truman, and then I ended up loving it up there. So she went on to Hannibal and finished and got her degree, and then I went to Truman and got mine.
SPEAKER_01So wow, cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, your degree is in English. So was my mother correct that it's burst instead of bust? I mean, I don't how did she know that?
SPEAKER_04I don't know. She's super smart.
SPEAKER_01In first grade, mom, you don't say a bloom busted, you say it burst. Okay, all right, mom. I want to know what book mom read that had that in there or something. Okay. I mean, I could just live here. I love how you said you would encourage anyone to do it. Anyone? Anyone, Judy, at any age? Are there any things to consider? Like, what should we what should a person ask themselves if they're like, do I want to go back to school?
SPEAKER_05Well, I think if you if it's something that you feel like you'd always regret if you didn't, then you should uh if you if there's a job you really want you need that training for. Like I went to school with some women who had been nurses' aides and they really wanted to be the nurse. They wanted to earn that money, they wanted to have that responsibility and respect, and so you know, they became nurses. So there are yes, there are times. Now you know, I I'm not saying everybody needs a degree. Both my sons-in-law went through the vocational program at Macon and they both made more money than I did when I was teaching, I guarantee. So, you know, if you're looking at looking at money and it's just about money, then that's not the way to base your decision on that. I don't feel like you need to just depends. It depends on what you want to do.
SPEAKER_01Well, I like though how you said it it might be about a job. That's a really, really smart and easy decision maker. But it's also that emotional one of if you'll always regret it, do it. You said that to me in your submission. You said you knew you would always regret it if you didn't.
SPEAKER_05I would have.
SPEAKER_01That's partly what drove you. I I haven't been able to settle that. I think, I think that I might not regret it if I can do the things I want to do in life, which the things I want to do don't necessarily require a degree. And I'd have to do so much else for a degree than what I'm interested in. So that's where I where I hesitate. I may I may call you up at different times when I have more thoughts about this because I may never settle it. That's one thing. I don't know if like if I'm on my deathbed, I'm not sure I would regret not having a college degree. But I do think I might die still wondering if I should go get one. The question will never be answered, I don't think. But uh, we'll see. Maybe, maybe I can get more more peace than that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I have ideas about that.
SPEAKER_01You have ideas about that?
SPEAKER_05For you, I think. Yeah, I think you should just take a class. Just take a one that you would enjoy that, you know, take a creative writing class or a composition class or something like that. Just M A C C it's open door policy. Um they'll place you where you need to be. For example, I did not get directly into college algebra. I had to take uh fundamentals of algebra first. I'm just gonna be honest with that. But uh yes, maybe you just want to take a class or two and say, hey, yeah, I took some, I was I took some college classes. You don't have to do the whole thing and chemistry. And for me, the you know, those classes were harder. Chemistry was hard and stressful, you know. Do you want that stress in your life right now? Or you want to go, you know. Depends. Yes. I want to rock that baby.
SPEAKER_01Until the end of time.
SPEAKER_07That's great.
SPEAKER_01But that's a that's a fabulous advice. That's great advice. Sounds like advice, Phyllis gives me too. It's like because part of it is do you just love learning? Go learn. Yeah, yeah. I think I get stuck in why start if I'm not gonna finish, get the piece of paper, all that. But it's I don't have to think of it as starting. I have it's just take a class, enjoy, enjoy the learning.
SPEAKER_05Try it. And you might think, ooh, I don't want to do this. I'm not gonna spend hours of time doing this. You know, that could be the answer too, but you would know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Judy, I do think I keep telling people the minute someone asks me to write a paper, I think they'll lose me. Because it's like I love writing, but I want to write what I want. I want to be telling me what to write. So I do I do wonder about that. But but yeah. It it's that's a great that's great advice. I love it. Do you have any other anything else you want to touch on with that aspect? The whole going to school thing, going to school late in life. I want to make sure you say your piece about it.
SPEAKER_05Well, I just think, you know, if if I could do it, anybody could do it. So But you do have to have somebody to help you out, kind of, you know, unless you want to get a bunch of student loans, which I didn't want to, but you can. They're out there, also student loans, and you can pay them back if you're doing a job you love and having an income rather than working at a minimum wage job, you know, if that's all you're qualified for and you want to do more, then do more. But they're yeah, there's some good programs at schools out there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Did you sit at the table in the evenings with your kids, all of you doing homework?
SPEAKER_05Yes. Yeah. And when I went, I mean, I think Vanita was already married. No. I might have gone. Yeah, she might have been married when I went full time, I think. But uh yes, one time, for example, at Truman at on Thanksgiving break, they were saying, Oh, I'm we had a project, a group project, and this girl was like, Oh, I'm just gonna have to say, Mom, call me from when dinner's ready because I have this project I have to work on, and I'm like, Yeah, I'm the mom making the dinner and doing the project. So wow, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow, yeah. It's called the whambulance. Funny. Did you ever have moments where you're like, oh man, like, did you feel out of sorts when everyone around you mostly was younger? Or was it like, whatever, this is just me doing my thing?
SPEAKER_05Um, I didn't feel out of sorts. I did sometimes look around the room and think, is there anybody older than me here? I, you know, especially in Truman, they're not so much at MACC, yes, there was. And uh Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I had a coworker who went to MACC in her 70s.
SPEAKER_05Oh wow, yeah. Yeah. But and then one time I was in an English class and they were talking about, oh, an AP English, advanced placement English, you know, we did this and we did this. And I was thinking, oh my gosh, what what am I doing here? You know, I haven't had those advanced classes, but I did okay. So it all worked out.
SPEAKER_01It did, it did, which we're gonna talk about, but we're gonna go backwards first. I'm gonna go backwards to my astronauts and rock stars segment. Okay. Let's let your dreams, which we we really kind of we kind of heard your dreams, but let's start with what is your just earliest understanding of work?
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01What was work to you as a kid?
SPEAKER_05As a kid, my mom worked around the house. She did all the cleaning, laundry cooking. They had a garden canning, we had chickens, all that. My dad was always a hard worker. He farmed and we had milk cows. And so that was twice a day. You had to milk those cows. And the we kids helped. Um, I went and got the cows from the pasture and sometimes on my horse. I know that it makes me sound really old, but it's I run my horse or walked and brought the cows. They wanted to come in, so they would come in to the barn. And and so uh, and and in the summer I would help in the hayfield some, dry the tractor while he picked up hay and things like that. So that's what I remember. And then, you know, a lot like Kathy's story, he went to work at the factory, the same factory that your grandpa Clifford went to.
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_05And so I'm assuming something must have happened agriculturally during that time where everybody needed a little extra help, or the farm wouldn't support itself or support the family or something. So he went to work at the factory and and mom also cooked, you know. I mean, we have such we live such parallel lives. Mom also worked in the school kitchen some, and so that was my idea of work, I guess. Yeah, I knew different people had different jobs, bus drivers, mailmen, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, the the working on the okay, when it was the farm, the when that's the f all the work that you that your parents had. Like in your mind, does that feel really different than people going to a job during the day? Is that more like that that was just life, right?
SPEAKER_05Yes, yeah. That was our way of life. More so than than now I knew the milking those cows twice a day, that was work. We couldn't unless we had somebody come over to do it, like paid a neighbor to do it, you know, we couldn't go on vacation, which but we did. We went on vacations and things even in the summer.
SPEAKER_03But you have a neighbor come or something.
SPEAKER_05I love country life, so and I love it.
SPEAKER_01So with You said you d you're you assumed something agricultural happened. Do you remember the emotional vibe in the house when your dad had to go work in the factory? Was it a bummer? Was it this is I'm just gonna do this now?
SPEAKER_05We were kind of excited. And yes, yeah. And he worked till he retired. And the funny thing is, I was just thinking about this recently. He retired, they had a party, gave him I don't remember a TV like they gave Clifford, but they gave him something. And then he wanted to go back to work. He didn't want to stay home then, so he went back to work for a while even after he retired.
SPEAKER_02Oh man.
SPEAKER_05Instead of fast making toasters, you know. I mean, it's just he liked to work and he liked to be busy, so that's what he did.
SPEAKER_01What was the situation on the farm at that time? Did you get not have cows and stuff anymore?
SPEAKER_05He sold the dairy cattle then, but we had we had beef cows still that we raised. Okay. That wasn't as labor intensive, you know, so he could still do that. And then they sold the farm and moved to town after I got married. So eventually they lived in in town, as we say. In Make Town. Yes.
SPEAKER_01When so when you did you ever have any dreams about what you were gonna do when you grew up before the English teacher idea, which was in first grade, right?
SPEAKER_05Always teacher. Always, I always always a teacher.
SPEAKER_01Did you picture, like, were you a little house on the prairie teacher in your head? Uh that's what I would have been. Walk into school with my basket. This beetle. That's who I would have been dreaming of being if I was little as a teacher. One room schoolhouse. That's all I would have been able to picture.
SPEAKER_05No, I think, like I said, Ms. Thompson, my sixth grade teacher. She was kind of my who's a good idea. But I also there were others along the way that who I admired, but so always an English teacher, and that's what you became.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever have some we did you speak that out loud? And if whether you did or didn't, did you ever have someone tell you something else you should be?
SPEAKER_05I did. I did. I had a uh principal when I was going to school, I kind of left this out. I also did some substitute teaching because I would get a Monday, Wednesday, Friday schedule to go to college, and then I could substitute teach on my days off to help, you know, help a little bit. And a principal told me, oh, don't English teachers are a dime a dozen. Don't do that. Be a speech pathologist. And so I, oh, maybe I should be a speech pathologist. Because, you know, here I am. I'm thinking, like I said, you know, I thought maybe I should teach kindergarten, maybe I should teach special education, then maybe I should do this because I knew it was a practical, high-paying job. But I found out you had to take physiology. And they in Truman at Truman worked with cadavers, which, you know, are people who donated their bodies to science. And I did not think I could do that. Plus of, you know, several science math classes that I just didn't, I wasn't interested in. And my husband, bless his heart, it's the reason we've been married 54 years. He said, if you want to teach English, do that. Do what you want to do. You know, don't listen to these other people. So that's what I did. Blaine? I know.
SPEAKER_01Good man. Good man. He is. Um, those are that's I love those stories about the way he supported you and pushed you towards what you wanted. That's so great. English should so speeze pathology. Did you listen um closely to the Kristen Flanagan episode? That is what she does.
SPEAKER_05Yes, I'm so glad that she says. I'm so I mean, we need speech pathologists, but that just wasn't. I think I would have enjoyed the work, but it was the path to get there. Those classes, like you said, taking those classes you don't really want to take. I just uh I know.
SPEAKER_01And then well, we know you definitely ended up in the right thing. That's what we're gonna talk about next. Oh you you became you became an English teacher. What grade? What grade?
SPEAKER_05Well, when I started, it was eight through twelve, and then when I ended, I was ten through twelve, mostly mostly seniors toward the end. I taught a several dual credit classes, you know, where they get around college credit and high school credit. Yeah. So composition one, composition two, public speaking, American lit, English lit. I also taught a little Spanish, um poquito español. Um, so I did the yearbook. When the first year I taught, they told me, okay, you will be cheerleading sponsor, eighth grade sponsor, you'll teach eighth through twelfth grade English. And I said, if you know, if they had told me you have to shine the superintendent's shoes, I'd said leave them outside his door. I would have done it. Because I wanted that job so badly. But yes, I taught lots of different classes. And then also I taught night classes through MACC to like at down at Macon and at Kirksville at the different campuses. So I got to people from older students, people from other schools, and things like that. So I also had that experience.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. You kind of have your first entry to teaching, sort of, was that parent that aid job in kindergarten and you loved it. Felicity has such a similar story, and now she teaches grown-ups too. Did any part of you ever kind of miss the little kiddos, or do you did you always enjoy teaching that meteor English level stuff to the higher grades?
SPEAKER_05Well, no, I those little ones, they love you, you know, come up and hug you. But the funny thing is, those kindergarten card kindergarten students, I ended up teaching in high school in junior high. Yes. So I was able to Yeah, that was fun. I was able to teach them again then through high school and when they graduated. So they remembered me from from back then.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. So what does it take to get there? Is the question we know how how you became a teacher. What does it take? What does someone need to know about themselves or to uh to do that, to take the teacher path, what you think?
SPEAKER_05Well, you have to love kids, I think. You have to be patient, you have to have empathy, a sense of humor helps a bunch. Oh good one. Well you have to laugh. I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Which um I I love Ellen Montgomery's definition of a sense of humor, which is just the sense of um, how does she say it? Just the sense of the rightness of things. Like this does the pr having right perspective is sort sort of what she means. I can't remember um how she says it. I had to look that up, but sense of humor is just knowing there's a time and place for everything kind of thing, and knowing what what it is, yes.
SPEAKER_05Yes, you can't take everything so seriously.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_05And I one of my favorite sayings about teaching is students don't care what you know until they know you care. And I think that is true. You can be brilliant at your subject. I could have known all the poets and writers and everything, but if you don't try to make a connection with them, then I don't feel like you can teach as well. I don't know. That's just me.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. They don't care what you know until they know you care. You should coin that.
SPEAKER_05Well, I heard it somewhere. I didn't make it up. So I heard where and I Judy!
SPEAKER_01That seemed like such Judy Gold. I thought for sure you coined it. No. It's so good. I love it. Um, and I do. I think I agree. Probably some teachers certainly don't live by that, but I bet they don't, yeah, they don't connect very well. And the students probably don't care much about what they're being lectured at. Um okay, when you're teaching, what are some things you do every day, basically, that might surprise people that they might not expect is part of a teacher's life.
SPEAKER_05Oh, well, I don't know if they don't expect it, but I I would stand outside and greet my students in the hallway, you know. Of course, we were supposed to monitor hallway behavior also, but greet the students, take attendance. Of course, they expect that. I think they don't expect how much time you spend outside the classroom. You know, a lot of people think, oh, you go at eight, you're done at 3 30, you get three months off, but no, you're planning your your courses, your grading papers. You know, there's a lot more to it. Going to workshops, going to things like that to improve yourself all the time. So those are some things that I did. I I would try to plan I had seven preps a day, six or seven, depending on how many classes we had, but different classes every day. So some in bigger schools you might have a teacher who teaches three classes and repeats that, you know what I mean? Like when they only prepare for say three classes a day, repeat that lesson, but in a smaller school you have lots of different preps, and so yeah, there's a lot to it. There's a lot to it behind the scenes, I think, that you don't know. And meetings and all that.
SPEAKER_01So do you do you classify yourself as an extrovert or an introvert?
SPEAKER_05I used to think I was an extrovert, but I also need quiet time. So go and socialize and it's all great, but then I need to go home and unwind and be quiet for a while. So I don't know for sure.
SPEAKER_01Wouldn't teaching be almost all extrovert?
SPEAKER_05Um, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01So so that's what I was kind of wondering, is if but it sounds like you're saying you don't have to be one though. It's okay, you don't have to be an extrovert, but just know it will take that kind of energy.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because you're like performing almost a lot of the time, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's what Felicity said. Only she said it like this. It's a show. I'm putting on a show. She was kind of excited about the performance.
SPEAKER_05I identified with a lot she said. She and I, you know, we got a lot the same path and a lot the same feelings about it. So yes.
SPEAKER_01I know someone in this world who heard Felicity's episode and has since become a teacher, but I don't know when they're gonna be cool with me telling their story, and I cannot wait to do it. But it was I that it's like kind of the one of the many best things that has happened from this show is when I heard that story. I'm like, what now? Um, they were fully equipped already. It was just a matter of applying for the job and and doing it, and uh, it makes me so happy. And then Felicity said, Oh, that's a lot of pressure. What if she doesn't like it? But because she's it was all Felicity's episode that caused it. But yeah, I'm wondering, so one thing about school that I enjoy not experiencing is there's this when you're in school, there's this sense that you always have homework to do. There's always homework. Does it feel like that when you teach?
SPEAKER_05Um, well, you do, yes, you do always have something to do. I surprisingly, I did not give a lot of homework. I don't believe in a lot of homework. I think you should, like in my classes, a lot of times we would I'd present the information and then they would work in class. I want them to work at school. They're at school seven hours a day. And you know, I I I'm a little nervous putting that out there with other teachers, but it's true. I they go seven hours a day, and then why should they have like two hours of homework after that or something, you know? And so I didn't give very much homework really. We worked in class mostly. And and I I love that. And I know that they're doing their own work too, of course, you know, because they were doing it and they were able to ask me if they need help, like say on an essay, I taught them how to write the research paper, and they would do that in class usually. So that's wow.
SPEAKER_01I love it. I am uh highly supportive of this, actually. And I think a lot of a lot of people are. I suppose there's probably teachers who aren't, but I I am really supportive of of that. No harm work. Not too much harm. Yeah. Yeah.
unknownSo I like that.
SPEAKER_01Um okay. One thing about your work as a teacher that mattered, at least one. Why was it meaningful for you?
SPEAKER_05Oh well, I just I think I prepared them for life, I hope. I prepared them for either going on to college or going on to their jobs. I taught an applied com communications class where they were going school to work and we would work on interviews and job applications and resumes and practical skills like that, with just English. So I hope I prepared them for for their college writing. I had students who would email me even, Miss Harvey, can you look at my paper? I'm nervous about turning it in, you know, and so things like that. And and just the connection, I I really cared about them. I mean, I'm going to a student's wedding on Saturday, you know, where I'm I'm in the wedding. And I've been retired 10 years, but he wanted me to come to his wedding, and so I'm gonna go. I've been to weddings, baby showers, sadly funerals, all you know, all all kinds of life events that those students, because I really did care about them all.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I love that I can ask a question thinking maybe I know what you're gonna say. Uh not that I I don't know what I thought you were gonna say, but I was preparing them for life. I just think that's beautiful. That's so good and it's so true. Um, I had a teacher who it was the first time I'd ever heard a teacher say it, and yeah, I'm sure many do, but she said, I'm not teaching you stuff, I'm teaching you to learn so that you can always always learn. And I thought that I'm like, oh, okay. I just really appreciated that that lesson. And yeah, preparing for life. Any teacher who has that at heart, I'm so grateful for them because yeah, we all need prepared. We need prepared for life. It's it's one of the things I talk about sort of on this show, but I feel like I was poorly prepared for what work is. Because it's um I d I mean I had kind of a non non-traditional schooling anyway, but I uh what do you think about that? Do you think kids understand you're gonna basically get a job, y'all? Better figure out what you like to do.
SPEAKER_05What do you think? Well I think it's hard till they get in that situation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know, I think they like, well, I mean I have to get up and show up at that time and work all day. Yes. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.
SPEAKER_03I don't I don't either.
SPEAKER_01Because I uh one thing I noticed is I watched my boys go through school and their days were so there was so much variety. I mean, there was a part of my one of my son's lives where he basically went from basketball practice to play to the musical practice and then and then home to do homework or or whatever and where he's doing science, math, English. You're it's just so full and rich and varied. And I remember thinking I was in a job at the time I didn't love and and I was thinking it I I dreaded it for them. I dreaded that day that all that goes away and you just hone in and you just do this one thing. It's one thing all day, every day, whatever. But I I I miss the play, the playfulness, the variety, the being able to have more things in your life. But I think that's a lesson for well, we should try to do it. We should try to make sure we have more things in our life than than the job.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Which is something I'm gonna talk to you about in a minute too. Um, okay. Did you ever get the Sunday night blues as a teacher?
SPEAKER_05I didn't get the blues as much as I got a little panicky, like, am I prepared? Did did I get those papers copied? Did I, you know, am I what was I doing? You know, which now I would take a picture of it, probably take it home with me, and I'd like, oh yeah, I have my because I always had plans. I didn't leave on Friday unless I had the next week planned, you know. I knew what we were doing, and yet I still kind of had that little momentary panic of, am I ready? Are we, you know, what are we doing?
SPEAKER_01So there was Do you remember ever sh ever showing up on a Monday morning and realizing you had missed something? No. Good. But yet the the but yet you couldn't tell yourself on Sunday night, I've always made it's always been good before. It's just an unavoidable anxiety, maybe.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Because you want to do a good job.
SPEAKER_05I do. And I was always on time. I mean, I could count on one hand the times that I was late, and that would be maybe five minutes, but not even one time there was a flood, I couldn't get there. I had to call in and say, I can't get the other roads flooded. But yeah, it was punctual. I'm compulsively early, so.
SPEAKER_03If you're not early, you're late.
SPEAKER_05What about how did did you like summers? Oh, sure. Yes, I did enjoy my summers. Yes, yes. Okay. And I enjoy retirement. You know, I don't know. We maybe we don't want to get there yet.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I want to talk about that.
SPEAKER_05I enjoy being retired too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I well, I the next question is what do you like to do? And I I do want to know how you feel about retirement because I've heard stories about people who don't prepare themselves for it at all. It's very shocking to their system to suddenly not have so much to do. It sounds like your dad was kind of that way. Yes. Um, but it's I talk to us about it a little bit. It sounds like you fully enjoyed teaching and yet you fully enjoy retirement.
SPEAKER_05I do, yes. Well, I and I I always thought I would still teach at the college part-time. And I could have. I had the opportunity. I could have still taught night classes or even a day class or a hybrid class or an online class, but I was done at that point. I I was like, you know, I just I think I'm I think I'm done. I don't think I need that. And so Lane, of course, is also retired. Well, he was at That's another story. But anyway, he he worked as a mechanic for years and then he and he farmed too. And then he got to the point where I was teaching, and I said, you know, you supported me the first 20 years, I'll support you the next 20. And but he, of course, the farm helped pay for itself too. But he was able to just farm and do a little mechanicking on the side, and then I was able to teach. So there's that, but so we were we're both home. I love spending time with him. Um you know, I think I told you my love language is quality time, so we just spend most of our time together and love it. And so we do things together, we have projects, we live in the country, we have big gardens. He likes to fish, and I go with him and just enjoy, you know, just I love nature, so I love being out in nature and just have a good time, we do what we want. I'm the backup babysitter for some of the great grands. So if something happens with a regular babysitter, then we have a play day. So I do that. I spend time with my sisters. Uh I have two sisters, and so we have sister days and we have lunch and everything, and that's really fun. I have a book club I love that we meet breakfast once a month, and we talk about books, so that's been a real highlight of my retirement, also.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, it's just oh, I want to hear more about that. Um I have so many questions. Uh are you an early riser?
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01As early as Valerie? She would she gets up so early.
SPEAKER_05Not usually four o'clock, but uh yeah, pretty early.
SPEAKER_01Farm girl early?
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01So do you go to bed early?
SPEAKER_05Oh, probably, like 10, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. 10's good. 10 10, I don't call early. I say that's that's yeah. Nine when people say they always go to bed at nine, I think, how do you do that? 9 p.m. comes and I'm like just starting my me time. So I want to hear more about book club. I've never been in a book club despite how much I love, love, love reading. And one reason is because I don't want to be told what to read. I'm so rebellious, Judy. But um you are a rebel, I think. But it sounds like you said we get together once a month for breakfast. Yeah. First of all, where do you go for breakfast?
SPEAKER_05We go to Applebasket at Macon.
SPEAKER_01I've never been there, but I hear about it. It sounds so good. So that's once a month. And you said we talk about books. So do you not actually give yourselves an assignment or how does that work?
SPEAKER_05No, we have we make up the books for the whole year, and we rec all of us recommend, you know, have book recommendations. So we give recommendations, and then so that sometimes there's a book I don't like, but I try to read it, but you don't have to. We say, you know, even if you don't read it, come anyway. We want we want you there. So it doesn't really matter if you don't read it. But I'm such a you know, do gooder. I want to teach her, I want to do the assignment. But there have been occasions when I just couldn't finish it. But for the most part, I trust all the members of the book club to make good recommendations, and so we have Is it is there is it always that someone has read the book? Oh yes, yeah. Okay. So we take turns leading the discussion. So you have, you know, I just led the discussion recently, and it it wasn't a book I loved, but anyway. But yes, so we take turns leading the discussion and then But if you haven't read it, that's okay too.
SPEAKER_01You just Are there any rules at all? Like Caroline Star Okay. Caroline Star Rose, who I interviewed at in the beginning, she said they have a book club where they have to be dead. The author has to be dead.
SPEAKER_05Oh no, no, no, no rules.
SPEAKER_01Fiction, nonfiction?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, anything. For a while we did have where we had a young adult and maybe a classic, and we said we kind of kicked out the classics because we'd all read them. We didn't need to read them again necessarily, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you you English grad, I'm sure you have. So have you has there been any book that stands out that you discovered because of book club? And loved? Or hated, I guess, but it'd be much more interesting if you said loved.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_01You didn't get Theo from Book Club, did you?
SPEAKER_05No. Well, that was a rec recommendation, but um like The Flower Sisters, that was really interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't know that one. I love book club talk because I don't know. I've never done one, and I kind of think I would like to, but I it's just never never happened for me yet. But the first one one book club I was gonna join, the first book they were gonna read was I think it was 1984. And it's I just knew that was not my jam. I don't think so. I mean, I hate to say something isn't my jam without trying it, but I I felt like I could say that about that one. I don't know. Anyway, um someday.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What what did you say while I was I said I have read it.
SPEAKER_05I didn't know you hadn't read it.
SPEAKER_01No, I haven't. So is it gonna be my jam? Would it be my jam or uh no?
SPEAKER_03Okay, thank you. That's what I thought.
SPEAKER_01All right. So so what do you like to do? We talked about nature. Do you do you bake and cook?
SPEAKER_05Are you that kind of grandma?
SPEAKER_01Oh, chewy.
SPEAKER_05Yes, I love to cook. Uh I do sourdough bread. We've had a a start of our sourdough in the family for decades. And so yes. My m my mother-in-law made it, and so now I make it.
SPEAKER_01You're pre-COVID sourdough people.
SPEAKER_05Yes, yes. It became so trendy for so long.
SPEAKER_01My goodness.
SPEAKER_05And uh, oh, I like making all kinds of things like spaghetti sauce, and you know, I cook them s from scratch, as they say. Right now I have uh ham and potatoes and cabbage and onions in my crock pot.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, I wish I could smell that. I wish I could smell that. That this smells like I'm very excited about this. Next question.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01If you started a podcast, Judy Harvey, what would it be about?
SPEAKER_05Well, I think it would be Judy's journey to find joy. I want to find joy every day. And for a while this summer I even went on Instagram and put a picture, you know, and put Judy's joy journey, but I got I then I didn't do it every day, you know, like I should have. But I'd like I just want to find joy in everything. I want to find joy in little flowers, little wildflowers, a hug, uh, a walk in the woods. I mean, I just I won't there is joy in every day. And you know, I'm I'm 70 years old, so I want to appreciate every single day. I think you need to have an attitude of gratitude, and so that's what I try to do. I try to just think, oh, you know, it's beautiful. Look, fluffy clouds, whatever, everything. You just need to to embrace it, embrace the joy in every day. If you look for the bad, you're gonna find it. If you look for the good, you're gonna find it. So I'm really looking for all the good things in life to go out strong.
SPEAKER_01I love that so much. I do you have a practice of reflecting on the day to remember what was joyful? It sounds to me like you have it down that you do it in the moment. You notice those things in the moment, but do you also reflect?
SPEAKER_05I do. I have a little journal right here that I write every day in. I mean, every day I write what we do. And also because we forget what we do, we're all to forgetful and be like, what day did we? What day did we do that?
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I also journaling so much. Do you know my journaling story?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna tell you my journaling story and you therapy me a little bit about journaling and what journaling means to you. So I I've always journaled, and it came very naturally. Like I would talk to people who say, I should really journal. I never had to tell myself that. It was my solace. I loved going to a journal and writing. But then I started transcribing that because we would literally go on vacation and I would be scared that our house is gonna burn down with all my journals in it, and it would just break my heart. So I started typing my journals into um, you know, Google Docs or something. And since I was doing that, I was seeing the repetition. Serenity has the same thoughts every day, every year of her life. I mean, I had the same angst, and I would even solve the angst. I would come around and I would have this beautiful thought about this, which anyone who reads my blog would know because I would put that stuff on the blog. It's like, here's how to have happiness despite cancer, or you know, here's how to be happy at work, even though you want to be an artist, whatever. I would get the aha moments. And the next entry would be, I hate this, blah, blah, blah. I'd go right back to the angst and have to come. So I I quit I just solid quit journaling the um 2023, January 2023. I said, I'm done. I'm not gonna write anymore here until I have fixed, you know, some of the stuff that I angst about all the time. And so I just quit. And then and I tried to focus then on a book I was writing. And so I tried to just focus on the aha moments. I had gotten so many of them. And so I'm like, if I want to write about work and art and all those angsty thoughts, I'm gonna put it in that book, the the solution, you know, the the aha's I've come to instead of just pouring out the emotions. But I missed it so much, of course, because journaling's really good for us. We I knew it needed to be in my life. I just knew I had to find a new way. So I tried to find a new way to do it. I created um a little bookmark for myself that has a bunch of journal prompts that I knew would lead to good thoughts. And so it's like, you know, what's going on in the boys' lives right now? Or um what what are three great, three things that happened today? Or what do you want to learn next? Or just little prompts because I knew that would keep but now I feel rest I feel restrained. Like I'm trying not to create a journal that I'm gonna hate in five years. Oh I don't know how to get back the just the freedom. Do you write free?
SPEAKER_05No, no, I don't. I don't. I don't write about the bad things usually.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_05I know that probably because I don't want you know somebody to find it later. It's like, oh man, she complained a lot.
SPEAKER_01You know, I don't want someone else to find, I don't want me to look back and annoy myself. Now, what I've what I've heard is that the answer is to throw it away. If you need to write stuff out, throw it away. So, but but words are so precious to me. And and handwriting and and journals, they're also pretty she the person who says that it's a woman mom uh turns me on to Laura Tremain, she says to get don't get too precious of a journal, too, and then you won't care. But I get precious journals. I love them.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I get and it's it's like the easiest gift to buy me ever. Anyone can buy me a journal and they've won the day. I mean, I will take blank books out the wazoo. So so I I love that you do the gratitude practice, but two things about joy. I just today was listening to a podcast where this Dr. Kelly McGonagall from California, she said the chief function of joy is to make us glad to be alive. And I think I think like we think joy is a symptom of everything's going fine. But what it is is it's the resilience that helps us find the joy despite what's going on. Or and the other thing I love about when you described what you do, how you look for joy. Sean Acor is one of my favorite um nonfiction guys out there. He does he's does positive psychology, studied positive positive psychology, and he has this great TED talk that I listen to whenever I want to smile and laugh. But um, and he talks, it's called the happiness advantage, I think was his first book. But he talks about how one of the you can, you know, we all kind of have a set point of happiness, but then there's this percentage, I think it's 40% or something, that is can be learned. We can practice it, and it's through things like that. Um, gratitude. And so he talks about how they studied people doing writing down the three things they're grateful for at the end of every day. Well, that's never worked for me. I it's too rote, like that particular thing. Write down three things every day that you're grateful for. But I heard him talk about it years later, and it made so much more sense because he said it's not writing down the things you're grateful for, it's teaching your brain to look for them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's this it's the scanning of life for the things that bring you joy. That's what increases your happiness in life. And that's what you're doing. You walk into the world scanning it for joy.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I try to look at positive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I think that's beautiful. And I think you should do it. Judy's journey to find joy. It's so good. So you should get that Instagram going again. Yes. You talked about how you would rather believe the best about someone and be wrong. Yeah to believe the worst about someone and be right. And so it's in people too. You look for it's not just nature, it's people.
SPEAKER_05People, yes, people too. Because I just I don't know. Again, you find what you look for. So if you are looking for the negative qualities of someone, you find that, you know. For the positive qualities, you see that more. Now, sometimes I disappoint you, but I, you know, I'm not perfect either. So no one's perfect.
SPEAKER_01No one's perfect. I think I've had some uh times in my life where maybe I knew a story from someone's life that was a misstep or or whatever. And I would tell, I would tell myself though, I can just treat them as now, the present them. I don't have to like punish them or or think, yeah, that story means nothing to my relationship to them now, kind of thing, you know. And uh Michael and I do talk a lot about the Luke Bryan song, I believe most people are good. We have a we have a little back and forth about whether that's true, but I kind of I love that song. I I mean I love that line in that song. I um I in that and now I'll have an argument which is I would rather believe that and be wrong than than than believe the worst of you. So I love it. Yeah. Judy, when do you oh I love this question. I've been asking myself this question and I don't know if I have an answer. When do you feel most like yourself? Who you are, what you believe, and what you're doing are all aligned.
SPEAKER_05Again, it goes back to nature, I think. When I'm taking a walk, we have a pine grove I like to walk through. And so that's when I'm in the pine nature. Yeah, well, we started out we were gonna have a Christmas tree farm. That was another adventure, a money venture we thought we would do, and then I let them get too big around because I couldn't stand to trim them as strictly as you were supposed to trim them. So now we have a pine grove and we have a path through it, and so I walk through that and again practice my gratitude, you know, grateful for all my little blessings and my family and friends and everything. So that's that's probably it. I also like to cook. I also feel good when I'm cooking and you know, making up a recipe, adding to a recipe, something like that. I like that.
SPEAKER_01Do you feel like you it feels like it to me, but you know, you said you're 70 and do you feel like you always knew yourself this well? Oh no. I'm glad I asked.
SPEAKER_05No, and I'm still working on myself. I really am. I still am working not to worry so much, you know, try to think what's the best could that can happen instead of what's the worst that can happen. And so no, you no.
SPEAKER_01No, okay, I've got some qu more specific questions along those lines coming up, but that not to worry so much. That in some ways, that in some ways the seed of this show happened when I started thinking about about all the things I've done for a job that I don't like at all and don't care about or whatever, but I did it because it was my job. And cheerfully, as cheerfully as possible, I did these things. And so then I started thinking, what else could I do? And one and one of the things I'm like, I want to not worry. And so could I treat that like it's my job description? So maybe it is your job to not worry. So every time you choose gratitude or patience or chill over worry, I mean, I tease I tease, you know, Jake or or something. It's I really do that mom thing where it's zero to 60. Jake's probably fine too. Oh my gosh, Jake's probably dead, and that's why he's not answering my text right now. It's 60 seconds. I get there. And so then I thought, well, what if I, okay, part of the job description for being Serenity Bohan? Do not worry. I bet I could accomplish it.
SPEAKER_05So I mean, that's your name, Serenity Now, you know.
SPEAKER_01No, Serenity Now. I just had someone at work today tell me, I feel like you live your name. I feel more peaceful when I talk to you. I was like, thank you. I've worked very, very hard to live up to that name.
unknownIt is.
SPEAKER_05You have to tell me, okay, stop. You know, I literally stop. What's the best? It's probably fine. He's probably fine. His phone's dead, or he's, you know, so you just, yeah. But it it does take work. And no, I I mean, I that's I think I I just wish I hadn't worried so much all the years because I worried about things that didn't happen. Most of the things you worry about, they're not really gonna happen. And if they something does happen, you're gonna have to deal with it. You'll handle it and move on.
SPEAKER_01That's the thing. I just read in a book, first of all, you know, mom's joke that she loves about that. The things you worry about never happen. She says, See, it's working. If I worry, it doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_05But do you think that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think if I worry about it, it won't happen.
SPEAKER_01But I know it feels productive. Worry, worry feels like well, like you're accomplishing something. But you said you have what where was I gonna go with that? You said you have to stop and say, Don't worry, it's probably fine. I can't remember where I was going because I I got lost on mom's joke. But but yeah, you I love I love that that you didn't always know yourself this well, and so you're growing into it.
SPEAKER_04But yes.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about a couple defining moments in your life. See if you can think of some stories for like when is a time you knew you knew what you wanted.
SPEAKER_05Well, I think when I when I knew that I wanted to be the English teacher, I guess. Yeah, I got that job. I was that was it.
SPEAKER_01Good one. Yes. How about a time when you knew you wanted a change? You have a very um your life is similar, same same location, geography, all that. But was there a time when you wanted something to change and you knew you wanted it to change?
SPEAKER_05Just maybe like I I think I already mentioned this when I retired and I decided I was just going to be retired. Yeah. Because I always thought, oh, I'll I'll go ahead and teach too, but I didn't have to, for fortunately. We were financially stable, so I didn't have to work and I didn't want to work. I wanted to to play, do what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01Did that surprise you at all about yourself? Like when you were still okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it did. I was surprised.
SPEAKER_01I love it when we surprise ourselves.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know this about me. Yeah. Right. I like that. Okay, endless possibilities. That's this segment. I don't usually I don't usually title my segments, but I'm having fun with it today. Um what what are your daydreams now? Are there things that you still wish or hope to see or experience someday or that you wish or hope for others in your life?
SPEAKER_05Uh not for me. Like, I mean, if I if I don't wake up tomorrow, I will be I will have died happy. I will have died satisfied. I've met my goals. Um of course I'd like to still see, you know, my grandchildren, great grandchildren grow more. But I guess I've done my job.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_05So I don't I don't have any big dreams or at this point. I'm I'm just satisfied, just living day-to-day with the people I love.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it seems like you live very in the present.
SPEAKER_05I try. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but you have to try.
SPEAKER_05And I'm not I I I've read one time that the true secret of happiness is not to get more, but to want less, which doesn't mean not to have expectations, but just to be satisfied. Yeah. You're live. I'm I mean, I'm living the dream. That's why I tell Blaine, you know, we are living the dream. We are spent when we were young, what'd we want to do? We wanted to be together all the time, you know. We want to grow home, you know, and we're living the dream, you know, we get to do what we want.
SPEAKER_01My my husband and I dated and we went out, you know, you go somewhere, go to a restaurant, and we would just we couldn't wait to just be able to hang out on the couch together. That was like our dream. And so, yeah, we we remind ourselves of that sometimes.
SPEAKER_05Yes, right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're living the dream. Oh, I love it. If if you bumped into yourself in high school and could drop a hint or just say anything, what would you say?
SPEAKER_05Um, no, don't worry so much. Uh it's you're gonna go through some stuff, but you'll survive, it'll be all right. And you know, you'll end up still happily married many years later, and it's a wonderful family. So I think maybe that's what I would tell that young person. Yeah. Go to college someday. It might not be as soon as you want, but you will go to college.
SPEAKER_01Oh, good. Yeah, you'd give her hope. Yeah, I I wonder, I ask myself, would I tell myself you get to marry the boy? Because I wanted to marry that boy since I was 10. And yeah, I've really wondered sometimes. And I I but I can't decide if I would tell her or if I would just tell her it will be okay. It's gonna be okay. You're gonna be happy with your life. Okay. Oh, I can't wait to talk to you about this one. Do you have advice for how to enjoy your work, teaching or otherwise?
SPEAKER_05Yes. And this again comes from my wise husband. He gives our kids this advice too is don't worry about what everybody else is doing, just worry about what you are doing. And because if I thought, you know, that teacher over there, he's sitting with his feet on his desk and he's not doing this and that, you know, I could have been like that. Not that that ever happened.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_05But uh anyway, just stay in your own lane, do what you want to do. And I've been hearing, I've listened to every one of your podcasts. I'm one of your biggest fans. Everybody talks about the relationships, and that is very important. It's you know, if you're working with people you like and enjoy spending time with, then it makes it a lot easier. So that's one thing I think to try to have a positive attitude. I used to watch this series Dirty Jobs, and I saw a man clean up port-a potties for a living, and he was so positive and excited about doing a good job and getting every little bit out of the port-a-potty, you know. And so, I mean, it was just amazing to me that he could do that and really enjoy his job, and that's what he did. So, attitude, I think it's attitude.
SPEAKER_01It is attitude. It's partly attitude. That relationships thing is good. I can say from my experience, um, I don't often have good advice from my own life about how to enjoy work. But that relationship thing, one thing I think sometimes when I hear people say it's about the people you work with, I think that means um you get lucky or not if you work with people that you but I think also there's an element of being able to work for it. I I've worked remote now for several years, and it's easy to just never really get to know the people you're working with or have those. But if you work for it a little bit, if you even have someone who it's a little abrasive, you're not quite clicking. If you'll push through, if you face it head on, if you communicate and if you try, you can all of a sudden they're your bestie. I mean, it can work. You really can change a relationship if both people are willing and and if you try. I've done it many times. I would bump up against a personality at work and think, wow, we're never gonna be the same. We don't get along. And we do eventually because we work at it, you know, you can. And so it's true. Relationships are a big big part of liking your work.
SPEAKER_05Well, I went through Leadership Academy when I was a teacher, and it was so good because we learned about the different types of people, different personalities, and that you need all those people on your team. So you might have somebody with attention to detail that you don't have, and it might drive you nuts, and yet that's what you need. You need somebody with that attention to detail to take care of some of those jobs that need to be done. Or you need a quick start person to jump in there and do something, and you need the other person that wants to stop and consider some things. So, yeah, it's it's important to have different personalities like that on your team too. If you have a team, such a good point. But Seren Serenity, if you only work by yourself, then who's to blame if you don't like your coworker?
SPEAKER_01My coworker is such a big fat complainer.
SPEAKER_05She's like, why am I gonna we're gonna have a good day here today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like Serena Barry said, or Serena Zarilla Bear said in her episode, this is another survivable day. And in her side I've been saying to myself. Now, today I said it a little more colorfully than that as I was walking downstairs. But basically, we're gonna get through one more day of this this week. That's so true. I have no one, no one to blame when I work when I work alone. But sometimes I work very collaboratively, even though it's remote, because we were on our Teams meetings and talking a lot. Um so those tips that you gave were kind of for any job. It's not it's about your attitude, it's about the relationships. Do you think there's an element of choosing right, choosing the right job for you?
SPEAKER_05Oh yes. Okay. Yes. I think so too. Okay. You have to do something that that coordinates with your values too, you know. Like I couldn't do a job where I had to lie and say my boss was gone, my boss would be in the office. You know, things like that. I could not do. I would not be happy in that situation. So there are there are things I would not do, wouldn't be happy doing. Yeah, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I um it's true. I can attest. Yes. I can't. There's not always a quick option uh to switch. But I was so I was so jealous of Kristen Flanagan and her upset when she said she vowed to herself as a teenager, I will not be in a job that I don't like. I'm like, that is the vow I should have made. It's a good one. So I agree. I think there's choosing, but then also all those things you can do to sort of have the best possible attitude no matter where you are. But yeah. Okay, let's this is I wonder when you were done to so what if you could have chosen the perfect hours for teaching? Would you have changed it up?
SPEAKER_05Um, I would have taught in the morning, you know. I I'm a morning person, so like I said, that kindergarten job, they just had a half-a day kindergarten. I work in the morning. That was perfect for me.
SPEAKER_01But I seriously wonder if we could pick our hours if we could work forever kind of thing. It's like, sure, I'd work two hours every morning in the minute, then be retired eight hours a day or whatever. Yeah, that's good. Just teaching the morning. Of course, as a as a mom who was not an early riser, I always wished school would start even later. So there would be that's that's why systems exist, because we don't all have the same wishes. Somebody gets to just set up the system and the rest of us have to flow with it. Figure it out. Figure it out. Okay. Is there this is question everything. I like to question everything. Is there anything that makes you say, why do we do it this way?
SPEAKER_05I'm a rule follower. I'm not trying to ramble like here, so I pretty much follow the rules. Um I do think with education, we have to be aware, if we're talking education, that there are multiple intelligences. And so I loved what one of your guests said about the fish in a tree. There's a book about that. You know, it's when you adjust fish by its ability to climb a tree, it's gonna spend its life thinking it's not smart. And so there are so many different intelligences, hands-on learning, kinesthetic learning, uh, auditory learning. There's just so many different kinds of learning. And so and as teachers, we are usually trained in that, but then traditionally sometimes you teach the way you were taught, and so you know, or the way you learn, yeah, instead of trying to really make an effort to make sure those kids hear so I think just being sure that they're different intelligent, there's the artistic person, the musical person, you know, all those different abilities that we need to embrace instead of trying to put everybody in the the same box.
SPEAKER_01Is it easy to tell a student's learning pattern?
SPEAKER_05Sometimes, sometimes I do a thing where we would go around and uh introduce ourselves, and if a student would look at the person, they were a visual learner. Like, like I would say, introduce yourself with an adjective in your name. So of course I was joyful Judy. And so they would go around the room. This is say in my college class, if they would look at each person, they're probably a visual learner. And if they were looking up and trying to remember, they were an auditory learner and they were thinking about what they heard and what order they heard it in. Well, I don't know, sometimes sometimes you can. My husband's a hands-on learner. He jumps in there and does something while I'm reading the book, I'm sitting there reading the instruction book on how to put something together, and he's already has a done, you know.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, Felicity said she's also learned that some studies show the truth is we usually need more than one way of learning a thing before we learn the thing. The all of us. Like even the even if we might have a preference, we may need the auditory and the visual kind of thing. Sure. Yeah. I love that. That's a really good answer to that question when you thought you didn't have one because you're a rule follower.
SPEAKER_06I'm a rule follower. It's because you're a rule follower.
SPEAKER_01It's because you're a rule follower and you were determined to answer the question. Yes. You're not going to say, I don't have an answer for that one, Serenity, to anything I said.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01What can I how can I play this card? Yes. How about this? Do you have alternative questions to ask kids rather than just what do you want to be when you grow up? that might help them discover what they want to be when they grow up.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I I would ask them, what are your interests? What do you like to do? Excellent. What are your interests? That's that's that's what I would do, maybe more than Oh, what do you want to be? And I tell people I changed, I changed my mind. Even though I always wanted to be an English teacher, I still considered other paths as I and I was an adult at that point, you know, thinking maybe I should do this, maybe I should do that. But so yeah, don't don't be too focused either. You know, explore. And and sometimes I would tell myself, you know, those first two years, you take your basic classes, you don't have to know what you want to do those first two years. They're gonna you have to get your basic core classes in there anyway. So then discover what you like. Take those classes and decide if they're going to college. If not, right, you know, what do you want to do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. I love that advice. Because I think one of the big problems with what do you want to be when you grow up is kids don't have that many ideas of what options there are. And there's so many options. I mean, there's there's a someone I'm putting the shout out on my show. There is a um golf superintendent who's in my family now that I want to talk to because I'm like, who would kids may not even know that's a job. It's just like you there's so many fun? They're a golf course superintendent.
SPEAKER_04Like they're I see.
SPEAKER_01I didn't even know that was a thing, probably. I mean, there's and it's it's outdoors. It's so if you look, you know, if you like out, it's just yeah, I want I want this show to have lots of variety where kids do get more ideas for what what you can be. Okay, this is one of my one of my favorite new questions. It's sort of new to the show. I've only asked it a few times. Is there anything you wish I had asked you?
SPEAKER_05Well, I wish you'd ask me for advice. I mean, I kind of did. The school. I think you kind of already did.
SPEAKER_01How to be happier at work.
SPEAKER_05I've already told you um what book I think you should write next. I emailed you that. Yes, you did. Tell that out loud if you don't want to, if you want to keep that under your hat.
SPEAKER_01I will tell that out loud. You think I should pivot this podcast into a book, right?
SPEAKER_05I do. I think you should write some, you could get some statistics. That's what you do, right? You do statistics for work or research or something. Market research. Research, and then put in these wonderful quotes that are in all of them. So you can have a little bit of numbers, then you can have what people say and what they're doing. And I think it would be a very interesting kind of a self-help or a well, this is where I'm gonna disappoint you.
SPEAKER_01It's like I gag at the at statistics and research. I like anecdotal.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's okay. Okay. Yeah, that's okay too. So I'd be like, here's what one person said. 50% of people really like their jobs or don't like their jobs, or something like that. You know, I mean something like that. I don't mean a bunch. I don't want a bunch of numbers either. You know, I've I've established that. Math is not my thing.
SPEAKER_01I know. You kind of scared me when you said that part, because that will be the same as me.
SPEAKER_05No, no, just a little bit like say, like, you know, so many people like their job, or this many people have a job they never thought they would have, or something like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You can even just survey the people on your podcast, perhaps. I don't know. I could I think you should do that. I think you should do a a book like that. And the classes, I think if you really think I I wish I had some college credits, then take a class. Just take one class and explore it. And be like Valerie, choose a class that you enjoy that you might enjoy. Um, you could take a language, you could take Spanish or something if you want, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So but you're gonna be doing extra work outside of your work. So there's that too. There's so anyway, those are my thoughts.
SPEAKER_03Is that that's all the advice you want from?
SPEAKER_05If you hate your job, I heard a a story on one of the podcasts I listened to, and I can't remember even, but this woman went to a new job and her boss was just horrible, hateful to her. And so she called her mom on her lunch hour in tears, and her mom said, Do you have your purse with you? And she said yes. And her mom said, Well, then to get to walking. And she walked away from that job. So I guess if if you really have a lot of angst about the job, get to walking. But if you like it and you can think you could change your attitude, you like what the financial part will do for the rest of your life that you do enjoy, then do that.
SPEAKER_01This is the big question of my life, Judy. And I now have your phone number. And I know that you love to give advice, and so you may just be getting some texts and calls from Serenity. You never know.
SPEAKER_05I'll talk you down.
SPEAKER_01That's what I know. I think I need to have whatever you need. Okay, up or down. Yeah, I have it's there's so many things in my life I feel like I just can't settle. And so I have to just reprocess them with someone over and over. Let's process this one again.
SPEAKER_05You just know you don't really ever always have the answers, you know. Like I said, you just really don't you'd like to think when people get older they have all the answers, but they're still trying to do that.
SPEAKER_01I think I'm hitting that. I think that's one thing that's happening to me in my life right now is this big question of shouldn't I have figured this out by now? Like, okay. You can still evolve. You're still evolving. Yeah. I did, yeah. And I have heard, you know, when I stop learning, I'm dead or something. Like we're always gonna, we've always got things to learn and even about ourselves. Okay. All right. So Judy loves to give advice. What else do I need to advise on me? Let me think. Oh, I love it. That's funny. Um, okay. Are we there? I guess we're there. We're at the end, the beautiful end. It worked for me. I like to give my guest the last word. It worked for me. Do you have something big or small that worked for you once like an aha moment, or it regularly works for you to help you feel more meaning in life?
SPEAKER_05Yes. And it's a poem. And it will, I'll share a poem with you because, you know, English teacher can't help myself. But I I've given some graduation speeches, and I also told this to the students, but it was written by a Methodist lay minister, and it didn't have a name to it. But it goes something like this God said, build a better world. And I said, How? The world is such a cold, dark place and so complicated now, and I am just one person. There's nothing I can do. And God in all his wisdom said, just build a better you. So I'm 70 years old, but I am still trying to build a better you, to be a better wife, mother, friend, grandmother, great-grandma. I'm always, I feel like, trying to be a better me.
SPEAKER_03That's so beautiful. I really love that. And you just whipped that off from memory. I love poetry.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's so cool. I love it. Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you so much. Judy? Okay, hold on. Hold on. Let's just, I'm gonna take a scan of your I have your um entrance, your for your submission form run here. I want to make sure I didn't miss anything awesome. You didn't talk about how you love to ride around in your buggy. Oh, yeah. You called it a buggy.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's a Elias, it's a uh Polaris Ranger. Side by side. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So we yes, I love just riding around with my husband out in the country and or on the country roads out here. So yes, we have a good time. I Kathy might have mentioned this one time. I I had we went out in the woods, we actually were cutting wood or something, and I had a little mug of hot chocolate, and I had my cap on, a little fuzzy cap and a scarf, and my coat, and I'm like, oh, we're living the Hallmark movie, you know.
SPEAKER_01Living the Hallmark movie for sure. The only thing is you don't have you don't have a single breakup in your life. Yeah. So there's no like he moved to the city and had to come back. It's one of the things I love about my story. No, no breakup uh between us. A lot of people have have a breakup in the middle, and I like that idea. Yes. So cool. Okay, Judy, thank you. Thank you for bringing into the world one of my other guests so far, Valerie, and maybe I'll get the others too at some point. And thank you for being here. Thank you for being a wonderful friend to my mother her whole life. I think it affected our lives. What a great friendship she had with you.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I just think you're freaking awesome for coming on my show.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Yes. Thank you. I hope you have a good night. You too.