I Do This for a Living
A show that asks how we can give as much time and energy to the things that matter as we do to the things that pay. I Do This for a Living is hosted by Serenity Bohon - sarcoma survivor, writer, and day jobbist, forever starstruck by anyone who finds meaning at work and in life.
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Visit serenitybohon.com/guest to be on the show.
I Do This for a Living
My Job Gives Me Music with Jesse White
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Please welcome Jesse White! Jesse is a musician and entertainer who is finding the day job brings him balance. Jesse has a familiar story of artistic dreams. He was determined music would one day be his job, and he worked toward that throughout high school, college, and beyond. Eventually, economic realities sent him to his network to find work that paid. Surprisingly, he found that stable income and the structure of a 9-to-5 was just what his music needed. In today's episode, he describes the dream, the reality, and the relief he's found in a job that makes more room for his music, not less.
Chapters
1:56 Let’s Talk About Work
6:24 Jesse White: Entertainer
17:05 Musician Dreams
27:01 Education: Music & Tech
29:32 The Music Dream Evolves
40:15 Your Creative Work Has Value
42:19 The Joy of Theater
1:03:47 The Job Makes Room for Music
1:24:35 Fantasy Football & Feeling Most Myself
1:32:15 It Worked for Me
1:36:17 How Work Makes Room for Art
1:36:50 Lean on Your People
Links
Jesse's band, Bad Self Portraits: https://www.badselfportraits.com/
References
Movie: That Thing You Do (which I did indeed watch the night after we recorded this)
This episode is sponsored by h34contracting.com
I Do This For a Living is independently produced.
Welcome to I Do This For a Living, a show that asks how we can spend as much time and energy on the things that matter as we do on the things that pay. Sometimes the things that matter pay, and we'll talk about that too. Okay, this may be the last episode of the show because the guest has settled all of my creative angst, creative versus day job angst, and he will do it for you too. You're gonna love this episode. It is my delightful nephew, Jesse White. And it's fun, it's funny, it's um all about art and it's all about work and the appropriate place where work fits in our lives, you know? And how we can really feel about it, and how it can actually aid and help and create structure around the things we love to do. You're gonna love it. I love it so much. Today's episode is sponsored by H34contracting.com, delivering exceptional quality and craftsmanship in and near Casper, Wyoming. They specialize in residential remodels. And if you hit up the owner, Jason Benson, he was on the show. An excellent episode that I beg you all to listen to. So good. If you hit him up at h3contracting.com, please tell him you heard about it on I Do This for a Living. I want him to know that he that we are grateful for his awesome sponsorship. Okay. Jesse White coming at you. Let's get to it.
SPEAKER_01Hello, Jesse. Welcome to my show.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm a longtime listener, first-time caller.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, you're a long time on the list. I'm so glad to hear you. I am this is what I'm finding. I have the most amazing people in my life. And I am enjoying to the nth degree introducing them to the world and letting the world know about the wonderful people in my life. So I'm having so much fun with that. I listen to other podcasts, and this is what I'm finding too. Um, people like to have experts on, or people who their statements are you, you, you. You can do it. You need to do this, you need to that, because they they're coming from this place of and what I find is I love having non-experts, but they're all such experts so far. They're like experts on their own story and how it might help someone else. And I mean, every episode I'm just like, that was so good. I just get so excited.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
SPEAKER_02I'm having a blast, and I'm choosing the right people, and you're one of them, Jesse.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm so honored. I'm like so excited to be here. I've I've really loved like just the concept of the podcast. And I was like, I feel like I have some cool things I could contribute. So I'm so so glad I could be asked on.
SPEAKER_02That's what I'd love to hear. Okay. I'm what, 20? You're 22. You're gonna be episode 22. Count if I count my intro as episode one. Yeah. And some we have this phrase at work, people say, I'm losing the plot. And so, and I, you know, I went into it with certain ideas and then they kind of evolved, and then but most of many of them have stayed the same. I would love, if you're a longtime listener and you like the concept, you tell me what the concept is. What is this show?
SPEAKER_00That's a great, that's a great question. I feel like the show is like, I don't know, the the definition of like the typical definition of work and what it means to people and sort of how that has evolved and how that like, I don't know, the way it holds space for different people in like different parts of their life. Cause like for me, I feel like it means a lot different for me at like my age of 25 right now than it does for my mom, who's a lot later in the stages of her career. Like, I feel like I'm just getting started in many ways, and like the idea I had going into it is different than what I have now. So I don't know. I think it's interesting to see like what work means at each stage of your life, and you're kind of like collecting this pantheon of people who are like putting that idea together for you, which is very cool.
SPEAKER_02That is so good. I love that. That's definitely what I'm getting out of it too. And I think the part that is different than I expected is I think it was gonna I think I thought it was gonna be the anti-work show.
SPEAKER_00Like Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like we were gonna talk about everything we loved in our lives that wasn't work.
SPEAKER_00Totally.
SPEAKER_02And what I'm finding is now I actually do want to talk about work because it's a big part of our lives. Yeah. And a lot of the things we do for meaning and fun are also work. They're effortful. And so I'm learning to not hate the word work. I don't hate the word work at all. I still dislike day jobs.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, no, I think, but I think that is also kind of like the ethos of it is like, I don't know, like you're putting together all these stories with all the other people you're asking on, but you're also like going through your own like progression through it all, of like you are finding like, oh, work can mean like different things and like it doesn't have to just be this the typical like, oh, Sunday scaries, here comes Monday, looking forward to Friday type thing. Cause I don't know. But I think like it's it's sort of fun to talk about work. My wife Julia talks a lot about gossip, and she thinks that like gossip is sort of the thing that like makes the world go round. And she like she listens to a lot of podcasts about like how important podcast is to like the development of like cultures. And like I think I think work sort of functions as that. Like work is like a form of gossip, and we just like kind of love to tell all the like ins and outs of our day-to-day drama. So I think it's just sort of like such a massive facet of life. It's impossible to just be like, oh, that suck. Let's not talk about it at all. That's not let's not talk about it at all.
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely agree. That's a that's lovely. I am part of the zeitgeist by entering the work culture conversation. I love it. Totally. Okay, you know what we haven't done is told to anyone who you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm just a random guy rambling right now.
SPEAKER_02You're random. I've picked up this random listener off the street and he suddenly text me about my show. But also, other you are you are Jesse White, and I would love to know how you would introduce yourself to the I Do This for a Living podcast audience.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, I'm again so honored to even give myself the introduction. But I am Serenity Bohan, host of I Do This for a Living's nephew. I am the son of former podcast guest Felicity and grandson of former podcast guest Kathy. So basically, my whole family has gotten on here, especially with my Aunt Charity and Uncle Joe, and uh all my friends are on here today, and my Uncle Mike, who was, you know, your first guest on this, but I am uh I am a very proud family member of the Nickerson family. Uh I have I'm a musician. I do uh lots of stuff with music in my day-to-day life, uh, and it kind of takes up both my work and my play, for lack of a better word. So I think I have a lot of uh fun ways that work has changed in how I thought it was gonna be for me, especially in the world of music. So uh I think the biggest thing is music just takes up a lot of my life, and it's uh evolved as the definition of work has evolved for me.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I cannot wait to hear that evolution. That's what we're here for. Yes. Um okay, so you may have answered this. What would you say is something you're known for? Like everyone in your family, friends and family are gonna be like, that's so Jesse.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think uh, you know, spoiler, you gave me some question in the showing how the sausage gets made, you kind of showed me some of the questions. And I was looking at this one and I was talking with uh Julia and I was like, I was like, what would you say I'm known for? And she's like, first of all, I'm not giving you the answer because you have you you have to you have to do that. It has to come from within. And so I was like, okay. So I really stewed on this one. And I think like the thing I would be known for is even in all its courtiness, being an entertainer, I think would be what I'm known for. And for me, it's like a two-pronged thing. For one, it's like the typical, like, I do a lot of performing, I do a lot of playing uh shows with my band, I do like some musical theater productions, so I do a lot of like entertaining and performing in that regard. But I think my friends would also know me as very much an extroverted person who like tries to get a lot of like social interactions going and like gatherings in some way. And I'm very lucky to be married to someone who also really loves hosting and having people. So when we're in like the like depths of conversation, I really like to be entertaining and like really make sure everyone is sort of like active and involved in everything. So I think entertainer is kind of the way I would say I'm known to friends and family.
SPEAKER_02Oh man. I love that I recently did this examination of my own life to try to put one word label on myself. Um, I may have talked about it in our like family uh club. But I I in I land I was I paused on entertainer for a minute because that's what I want to be, Jesse White.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Partly because of the lighthearted aspect that the older I have gotten, and it started, you know, a decade ago or more, but I started thinking because I take myself way too seriously. That's kind of my jam.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I take myself way too seriously, and I would prefer to hit the lighter side of life and kind of hit everything from this slightly, it's gonna be okay. And let's like laugh about it, let's talk about it. So I kind of want entertainer to be my thing, and where I landed instead is artist because they're a little more um take themselves too seriously.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02And also um, observer. Like I I feel like more often I'm more often observing before I entertain or something. But I I think that's perfect for you. I will say I agree.
SPEAKER_00The flip side of what you're talking about too is something I feel like because I'm typically on the lighter side of things, but there is like the as fun as it is to be on that end of it, there is sort of like a constant pendulum of if you're too far on the lighter side, then you do miss the more like serious aspects of things. Cause like I feel like sometimes like Julia always points this out about me. I'm probably gonna mention Julia like 30 times because she's the main person I talk to all the time. Uh, but like there are some times where she'll like ask me something about my friends that I've known for quite some time, be like, oh, what do what do they do for like work? Like they'll ask me something like that. And I'll be like, we don't talk about that kind of thing when we hang out. We you know, we're we're just having fun. She's like, you should like try to have more serious conversations and like get that aspect of it. And so as I'm getting older, I'm trying to get better about, you know, actually getting to know the people I'm trying to entertain more often than.
SPEAKER_02Oh man. Get to know the people I'm trying to entertain. I actually say about work, I love that we talked about that. That we probably should talk about it. We shouldn't just compartmentalize it because it's so much of our lives. And I noticed a lot of the parents of my uh kids' friends, I didn't know what they did. And it so it crossed my mind like we all do something most of the day that we don't want to talk about at the ballgame. Yeah. It's kind of my thing. It's another one of my complaints about how work can often be in our lives. And yeah, this show is about how else it could be in our lives. But so I love that. What are you doing for? Good answer, good, good, good answer. Um I am so excited to get to certain parts that I'm having trouble doing the earlier part.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I feel you're like, how do we get into the meat of it, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because you know what? I'm just going to, and then we can back up if we want. Because what I want to ask you, Jesse, do you speak Taylor Swift at all? We talked about how I've got my I do speak Taylor Swift.
SPEAKER_00I Taylor Swift. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay, you don't have to know like song lyrics for this. Okay. I love you, Julia. I love you, Julia. Okay, me too. I feel like um she has pretty much a song for every emotion I've ever felt. And Michael asks me why I like the breakup song so much or whatever. I'm like, well, they're work for me. Like I'm not singing to a guy, I'm singing to the jab often. But anyway, um, but it's not that hard of a Taylor Swift question. I just wanted to see if you are. But this is what I want to know of you. If you're what era are you in? This is my era.
SPEAKER_00Oh man.
SPEAKER_02I know, I didn't prep you for this one.
SPEAKER_00No, that's a great question. I would say oh man, I want to say I'm like 1989 right now, where like I just came off of like my young, dumb country era, and now I'm entering my pop era, but I'm like just about to get into really self-serious, like folklore, evermore like real introspective era, but I'm like right on the cusp a bit. I'm still like James Dean Daydream look in your eyes, uh, I believe is the lyric.
SPEAKER_02I think you should stay there for Evs. Yeah. I like the 1990s. I think and that matches your entertainer vibe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's kind of where I feel like I'm at right now. It's also probably like my favorite Taylor Swift album.
unknownCool.
SPEAKER_02It's definitely one of mine too. I can never, I could never land on a favorite. I'm actually not a big forever um evermore and folklore fan. Really? I don't know what it is, Jesse. Like I just said, I take myself too seriously. Yeah. And yet I prefer Taylor to bring me out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I I prefer the Taylor.
SPEAKER_00I think that makes sense. You want them in specific, you want artists in specific containers. It's like I guess, yeah. It'd be like if uh if Bruno Mars suddenly started being like, Yeah, I'm doing heavy metal now. It's like, no, you gotta keep doing that like bubbly pop thing we like from that kind of soul thing. Like, that's way more fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we will not allow this, Bruno.
SPEAKER_00No, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, stay with stay in the 70s with us forever. The poppy 70s. Okay. And let's also tell you're it, I uh very practically, you are in the era of your spouse is in an intense educational experience.
SPEAKER_00Yes. My my wife, Julia, who again I've already mentioned 10 times. I will mention about 30 more. Uh she's just she's my best friend. So I like talking about her a lot. Uh she has just finished last year, she just finished a six-year medical school program, which is combined with bachelor like undergrad. So it's just like technically the way it's broken up is like two years of bachelor undergrad and then four years of the med school, but it's sort of like a hybrid of those things. So it's a shortened med school experience, and then she goes straight into residency. So she is in her first year of residency at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. So for a brief minute, she was in Kansas City. I was down there with her for a little bit, and now we're back in Omaha, which is both of our hometowns. So it's crazy. So she's in she is in the heat of her like first real, real job.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Same as same year as your cousin John, my oldest, also in his first year of residency. So um we feel for them, do we not? Although she's doing great. She's loving it, from what I understand.
SPEAKER_00She is she is just a rock star, really. She's like there's not a lot that can phase her, and there's not a lot like she takes on a lot, and there's definitely times where she like it gets a little much. Because residency is just like kind of the most insane thing ever because you're still kind of a student, but everyone's like, Well, you this is your job. You have to actually be in charge and be the person making the shot, like calling the shots. So it's like a total flip-up of what you're like used to, and so it's a crazy like thing to get adjusted to. But she she's kind of known she's wanted to do this since she was like a child. Like she has always been like, This is the thing I'm gonna do, this is the thing her dad did, and so she's always kind of had her sights set on this. So she's kind of been like waiting for this part of it. And so, in many ways, I think she's just very excited about it, and like she's just kind of built for it. She's got an engine that she's just she loves, she doesn't like not doing stuff. She wants to be doing stuff all the time. And like, I'm not even joking, like, probably 10 minutes ago we were just having a dilemma because she's had like three days off the past week, and she's like, I hate it. I want to be doing stuff, and I'm like, Whoa, much different than I. When I get my days off, I'm like, oh baby, we've arrived. Like, it is much different mentalities.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I actually do want to okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna circle this weekend. I want to talk to you about that later because I have not talked to anyone about this, and I I have thoughts and I have questions for the whole world, but I'm gonna bring it to you. Weekend. We're gonna talk about that later. Days off and weekends. Maybe if we get to it. I hope we do. Okay, let's learn what little Jesse always wanted if there is such a thing. But let's start with what is your early understanding of what work is at all?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would honestly say it's kind of combined with what I wanted to be when I grew up. When I was growing up, my parents were very involved in a church. And so their like job as I understood it was music and like doing music for the church. Like, especially for my dad. Like his main job was like playing music for church. And so from like a very young age, I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. Like, I'm like it net not necessarily like within church, but just in general, I'm gonna do music in some way or another. Like that's what I want to do. And I had like, again, it's kind of why I say, like, that's what I'm known for among like friends and family, like the entertainment aspect is because even when I was very young, I would like kind of get involved in some music. And I had lots of family who would be like, Larry Jesse, like he's gonna be a musician, that's gonna be the thing he does, which is great, but it has like uh manifested in interesting ways for me as work has evolved for me, because what I thought I was gonna do for work was just be like music all the time, performing. That's all I'm gonna do, and that's what I'm gonna make not my necessarily make my money from, because I didn't have that concept as a child, but that's what I thought was gonna be the thing.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um, Jesse, thank you for saying that. I relate with all my heart and soul. Yes, that is me. I grew up in uh a church in church where what I say is we deeply valued the stage. And so I thought I would just get to be on stage in life forever, do the thing. And I don't know why, because as I told in one of the earlier episodes, many of those people who were on stage were running the ER on weekends or during the during the week, or they were my dad who was a family doctor, or they I didn't even think about that. I just thought they're they're playing trumpet and writing plays, totally singing, and that's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_00But even going back to like what you were saying, like about like the ball game, like people aren't talking about what they do for work. Like you're only seeing this part of them. So in your head, you're like, this is what they do, like this is what you can do. So I totally get it. That's totally how I grew up, and not I don't want to say like skewed perception, but like, you know, just a you had a different view on it than you understood, especially like when you're younger and like the world is full of possibilities.
SPEAKER_02Which Yes. Okay. We yeah. Look at this. My possibilities are endless. It's my little affirmation card that I forgot to flip from yesterday. Yeah. So it they are endless, but sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Oh, so it's like the the questions are bursting out of me. And so and I know some of the things I really want to talk to you about. Okay. So um, you kind of said earliest memory of having an answer to the question, what do you want to be when you grow up would probably be musician. I'm gonna do music.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Would you call that your longest running daydream?
SPEAKER_00100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What um instruments you sing, I know you sing. What instruments? What did you picture the ultimate musician, Jesse? What was he doing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would say the ultimate musician, Jesse, is honestly just singing. Singing is kind of like the main thing I do, but also drumming. I really and that's kind of changed as I've gotten older. Like when I was young, I was like, I'm just gonna sing and like be a performer and be a star. And like as I've gotten older, I've really liked playing the drums. So drumming and singing is something I'm kind of known for for like music right now. It's just like this current way I play in my band. And so I think that combination of things is like that would be the dream of getting to play drums and getting to sing.
SPEAKER_02Your shades? Ideals for a living. Yeah, I mean um, I what is it? That thing you do. That's it. That thing you do.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Brief. We need a a brief uh like segue here. Yeah, we need to go a little sidetrail about that thing you do.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I think that is like maybe one of the greatest music movies ever.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_00No one's seen it. I swear to you, Serenity, I've talked to so many friends of mine. I'm like, have you ever seen that? I like I'll be like, like, we got this man with a nice camper, he's gonna he's got a contract for us to sign, you're gonna sign it, I'm gonna sign it. We're all signing it. And I say that, and my friends are like, What? I'm like, you don't know that thing you do? And they're like, no. And so I've had to like educate many people on that movie, and I think it's like the best. That's another movie that totally made me think I could just be a musician when I grew up because it was back in the day where like if you made it on the radio, then that's all you needed.
SPEAKER_02I know, and then it even though it's a one hit wonder movie, it still makes you think, yeah, but he's gonna keep going and it's it's gonna work. We're gonna do this. Yes, I quote so much of that movie too. I like to quote um, you guys look great in the red. Did I ever tell you you look great in the red? You know, he says it about like every color.
SPEAKER_00Did I ever tell you you look good in the blue? Oh, it's so good.
SPEAKER_02It's so good. Um, I'm very proud of your parents for introducing you to that movie. It's a new thing in my that I notice. We're we're just a very movie family. And many people aren't. And so they'll come into our lives and know nothing.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And then I sound like a madman because I'm just quoting everything and everyone's just looking at me like we talk about it.
SPEAKER_02It's a whole different language. It is. We we we quote friends all the time in in my family too. And Drew and um Jake and I talk about how often do you do you quote it and then no one knows what you're quoting? So do you tell them or do you just let it seem like you're that funny?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question.
SPEAKER_02The lines are truly like one time I'm playing, I was playing poker with um some of Michael's family, and I like we picked up our cards and I went, yes, or no.
SPEAKER_00Oh no.
SPEAKER_02Michael's mom laughed so hard, and I was so proud of that joke. I did not want to tell her it's actually.
SPEAKER_00You didn't have the heart to say that it's Phoebe, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm like, I'm just gonna take that one. That worked so well.
SPEAKER_00It's so good. I love Friends Van.
SPEAKER_02I do too. That it's a second language, and movies are a second language, and yeah, that thing you do. So good. People, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put in our little show notes. Other things referenced, that thing you do. Yes, Tom Hanks.
SPEAKER_00Tom Hanks, I can't believe he wrote and directed that thing and starred in it. Like, he's amazing.
SPEAKER_02It's so good, it's so clean, it's so it's such crisp storytelling.
SPEAKER_00Yes, 100%. It's like you get in immediately. There's like and it's also like it's like a tight 90 too. Like it's just like here's the crop, here's the problem, here's the solution, here's the climax, and we're done.
SPEAKER_02And it's like, yes, and like here's the delightful characters, here's the high, here's the low. Exactly. Come back to the plateau. Yeah, it's so good.
SPEAKER_00Liv Tyler sleeves on.
SPEAKER_02I wasted so many kisses on you, Jimmy, whatever. Oh, it's unlow.
SPEAKER_00She's she's unbelievable in that movie. Anyway, we could talk for hours about this.
SPEAKER_02I know, I don't want to move on from this, and I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna have to watch it. What is it on? I don't even know if it's on anything right now. I may have to buy it on Prime or something.
SPEAKER_00I'm about to say, I only know my family, we own it unlike Apple. So I'd anytime I need to turn that on.
SPEAKER_02So does Apple have I remember when you were younger and your mom showed you this movie, she said, just FYI. There's a big fat makeout scene that wasn't in the original cut that's in, is it in the Apple version you have?
SPEAKER_00Do you know that's a great one?
SPEAKER_02The dentist, I think.
SPEAKER_00It's oh yeah, it totally is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay. I don't think I've even seen this scene.
SPEAKER_00And she literally just like climbs on the chair and starts making out with him. It's like it's maybe five seconds. But mom, my mom made it sound like it's really crazy.
SPEAKER_02I can't believe what I just showed my children. That's every that's every movie we showed our kids. It's like, oh yeah, I forgot that was in there.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Another movie story, real quick, about my dad infamously. Me and my dad always about like showing your kid a movie and forgetting like how it goes. My dad showed me Dumb and Dumber when I was relatively young.
SPEAKER_02Same experience with a friend.
SPEAKER_00And he the funny part about this movie is he showed it to me and he was like, this will be fine because we'll watch it together. And we get like 10 minutes in and he gets a phone call. I can't remember what the phone call was, but it essentially took him the rest of the movie to talk with this person. I watched the whole movie by myself. And I can't remember what aspects of it made me go like, huh? As a kid, but I remember I I I finished watching that movie. My dad finished his phone call and he came into the room. And I, according to him, I just look at him and go, I don't think I was supposed to watch that by myself. It's a very baby Jesse thing to say. And it's just so funny that like he had no intention of just leaving me high and dry on this, but he totally did, and it's so funny.
SPEAKER_02Your Nate Brighetzi at the little sleepover where they were gonna put on a horror movie, and he's like, I am not allowed to watch this. I'm not allowed to watch this. I have that we I said Dumb and Dumber, but it was actually Ace Ventura. A friend in college in Bible college showed me Ace Ventura. I will not say her name in case she's embarrassed, but it is C R. And she we're watching the guy's. I'm sorry. I mean, just apologizing. I'm like, I it was funny. I mean, it was just yeah, that's hilarious. Movies, movies, movies, let them. Okay. Let's grow you up. Yes. Although I never want you to grow up. Ever. Do you know when you were little, I said to your mom, could you please put his laugh in a bottle and send it to me?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Because it it was my joy. It lifted me up so much. Okay, so how did you decide? I guess when did your heartbreak, Jesse? I'm just kidding. But when did you decide, if ever? Maybe I don't get to do that like for a living. I will say Have you decided it yet?
SPEAKER_00So that's the thing. I feel like my heartbreak came maybe later than it did for some people. I don't know what to say heartbreak, but maybe it is heartbreak. So I went to uh when I was graduating high school, getting ready to go to college, I was looking at a few different programs. And like the first program I was looking at was a computer programming school in Lincoln, uh, Lincoln, Nebraska, for reference. Uh and I I I did computer programming in high school. I kind of liked it. I was like, this would be a good like career to pursue. And so I like went to check out this school. And I remember immediately being turned off by it because uh you live with all the same people you go to school with in like this one building, and you just live and work out of that one building. And I remember being like, no, I want to like not have it be so all-encompassing because one, no disrespect to computer programmers. I went, again, I did classes with some computer programmers, not necessarily my crowd of people that I typically hang out with. And I thought, boy, if I'm just with them all the time, that could be miserable. So I I was looking at some other things, and I remember uh talking with Julia about like what I wanted to do in college, and I was like, I really feel like I want to do something with music. Like, it's just like it's all I think about, it's all I do. Like, I just want to find a way to like make a career out of it. So I looked at University of Nebraska, Omaha, which is a lot closer to where I was living with my parents, and they had this major called music technology, which is essentially like audio recording and production. It's like sort of the recording aspect of music, which I've always really enjoyed. And like as a kid, like I would mess with programs like Garage Band, Logic Pro, which are like the Apple versions of like recording software. And I was always very into that, which again, it's why I have the fancy mic and the headphones. Like I really like recording stuff. Uh and so I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna like go to school, learn how to do this, and I'm gonna be able to make a career in music because I was like, oh, music recording, like there's always opportunities for that. So I did that, I had a great time. I really loved that program. I gotta do it with two of my best buddies who I still am like super close with now. Uh, and I graduated and Julia was in Kansas City, like I mentioned, for medical school. So I moved out with her, and uh I moved out to Kansas City and I was like looking at studios around the area. And I got super duper lucky. Uh I knew somebody who was like the head of a studio in Kansas City. Uh and I like worked with him uh on some music projects. He like was the he mixed some of my band's projects. And so he hit me up. He's like, hey man, I'm looking at your resume. Like, you should come to the studio and let's like hang out, let's like talk about what you could do for us. And I was like, sweet. So I was like, I can't believe it. Like this is the gig. So I went to go do it, and he was like, he's like, hey, so we'd love to have you. Like you could come hop on any recording project you want. He's like, but it's gonna be like an internship thing. It's like I can't pay you, but like you'll kind of work and do this thing. And so I was kind of like, okay. Like, I I guess that works. And like I've I you kind of know in like the music industry, internships are a big thing, especially in recording. Like, that's kind of the only way to like get into this thing. So I was like, okay, I I'm in a very lucky position in life that I don't have a lot that I'm paying for right now. Like my wife has a family that's very supportive and like helping with paying for school and for our our apartment that we were living in. And so I was like, let me just grind this out for a year. And so for like a year after college, I would just go to this studio and I would be there for like very long portions of the day, which only worked out because like Julia was off at school and she was there pretty late too. So after a year, I was like, I got a lot of experience and I was feeling really good about it, and I was like, I was like, okay, I kind of want to like try and find a way to make money off of this. And so I was like talking with my guy who is leading it, and he was just like, you know, man, like if you bring in your own projects and like you can use the studio and get you can get paid for it, and but like otherwise, like we don't really have a way to give you like a salary or anything. And so it got to a point where I was just kind of like, okay, so this isn't gonna work out in this facet of things. And so there's a point of time where I was like pretty down in the dumps about it because I was like, I'd worked really hard in school to like make this a thing. This was like a very cool opportunity, but like the only way to make money off of it is if you are the either the head of the a place, which no place wants to get rid of their head person, or like is looking for new head people because once someone gets that job, they're gonna take it. Because again, it's like kind of the only opportunity. Or you have to bring in your own projects and try to make money off of that. But it's sort of like making pennies off the dollar because they're paying for the studio and you're getting something off the top for your services, but like you're also very dependent on when those projects come in. So like it's very like there's no steady part of it at all. Like, cause you never know when projects are gonna come in. You never know like if they're actually gonna follow through. Like they can just drop out and not have to pay you, and you just don't get a client. So it's a very boom or bust thing. So uh as Julia was looking at residency, I s I started being like, okay, I need to pivot in what I'm doing, because as much as I love the music aspect of things and like the recording, all of all of it, like it's just not a feasible thing. Like it's a very tough industry, and I just don't have the time and like resources to just like try and grind it out for a year. Cause the guy I worked with is like, he's like, Yeah, man, I like lived in California for like five to ten years, just doing this unpaid for the longest time until I finally got my opportunity. I was just like, man, that things just used to be a lot different back when you could do that versus now. And so that was the moment I was kind of like, you know, rose tinted glasses definitely like fell away, and I was like, okay, so I need to like find a job. And that's when that's sort of when it fell apart for me.
SPEAKER_02And you did have some blues about it?
SPEAKER_00I did. I and I'm still working through like my perception of how music plays into my life, but like again, I held on to the idea that I was gonna do music for like a very long time, like through high school, through college, and I was like, I'm gonna find a way to like make this my full-time job, like what I do. And so uh when it got to that point where I was like, I it was very much the universe being like, hey, it's not gonna work out like this. I was like pretty beat up about it because I like felt like all the work I put in in college was kind of useless, and like I felt like I just I felt a little disillusioned because I was just like, man, I really thought I could make something out of this because I I'd like worked very hard for it for a very long time, so I was kind of beat up about it. But, you know, not to like skip steps, I think it I'm in a place now where my definition of like the or more like my the role music plays in my life has changed vastly. Whereas previously I was like, this music's gonna be the thing that gives me a job. Now my job is kind of the thing that gives me music. Like I'm able to like just be like, okay, I now have a job, and I do have a full-time job now that I really, really like at a company that I really like. And it's not necessarily the thing I thought I was gonna be doing, but it's giving me the resources and it giving me the time to do the thing that I want to do, which is music. So like I like literally like last night I got off of a shift and uh we finished and we had to like kind of reschedule some stuff on our end for recording a podcast, and so I hit up my buddies, was like, hey, we should like just play some music tonight and just like jam out. And we totally all gotta like hang out and play music. Like, I don't know if you can see behind me, but I literally have like my drum set back here in my room and we're playing some stuff. So all that to say it's shifted for me in a way now that like I've made I've put music in a different sort of like category pocket of my life.
SPEAKER_02Do you think it'll always be exactly the pockets you have right now? Could it shift again?
SPEAKER_00I think it could shift again. I think I think for myself, I have to allow it to just be what it is and not like force it into any other category and pocket. Because like, again, the daydream exists for me still. Like, you know, the back of my mind, there's always gonna be the thing of what if you play one show and the big record exec is there and he's like, I want to make you get you big, and I'm gonna sign you to a big record label and you're gonna be a music musician for the rest of your life. Like, there's always that. But there's also, as I've gotten older, the reality of I've watched in Omaha and like other markets, I've watched like bands who are amazing who I'm like, these guys are gonna be huge, just like dissipate and like nothing comes of it. Which can be like, you know, kind of a sad thing, but it's also kind of just like it's just the reality of how music is nowadays. Like it's a very hard world to break into, which is why when we get people who break into it and they turn out to be cool and make good music, then it's like, this is awesome and something that should be like celebrated.
SPEAKER_02You've already hit a thing that took me forever. And because with you, with music, you did try very hard and and applied yourself. For me, my daydream was movie acting. And of course, I was doing nothing actually towards it. I just daydreamed it. And so I literally believed if I would just try, it would happen. And then I started hearing the stories, and you start hearing, oh, wait a minute, there's all kinds of really good actors who don't actually make a living from it.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_02Let alone are they famous. Um, there's this book called Why We Can't Sleep, kind of about the midlife crisis for women, which I read twice in three months because I really super needed that in my life. And and the there's a random story in it. This is a call out to that woman. There's a random story in it about a woman who went to Hollywood to try to become an actor and ended up deciding it wasn't gonna work, and she moved back to Kansas City. That's what it says, which is very near us, as you know, you lived there. And I wrote to that author and I said, please connect me to this person because I want and she said she would, but it hasn't happened. Yeah. But it um I just wanted to hear from her how did it feel? Like, did it break your heart or did you just accept it? How what are you doing now? Is acting in your life at all? You know, it's like I want to know more. Totally. Because yeah, it's just such a realization that this this thing that we wanted to be our whole life can't be. And so now what do we do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think there's a part of it too that's like when you hear those stories, I think uh society and culture at large is very good at elevating the stories of the people who did make it versus the people who didn't. So we hear more of like the like rose from the concrete type stuff instead of like the very many hundreds, thousands, millions of people who have tried and have failed. So in the back of your head, you're like, you'll hear some of those failure stories, but you'll be like, but this time's different, and I'm gonna be the one who makes it. So you kind of get like this little like inkling in the back of your head that maybe it could be you instead of like the very real reality that like it's just not much of a thing. It's it's a very once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that does not happen for a lot of people, which can be like a sad thing, or it can just be like, that's just what it is. That's the way it's become in the modern day, like for music, for acting, performing at large, really.
SPEAKER_02For art. Absolutely. I that same book talked a lot about radical acceptance. And I'm like, what do I need to radically upset accept? And what I came to is because I used to have this manifesto about writing, because when I wasn't gonna pursue acting, then I knocked it down a peg and like, I'll be it red, I'll write the stories, you know, the movie could be on screen or whatever. And even that wasn't really working out. And I had told myself, I would tell myself as a mantra, kind of if you're um uh chase something, oh, pursuing the dream is the dream kind of thing. So I was trying to tell myself, as long as I'm doing it, as long as I'm trying, that's the dream. And then I kind of decided uh that wasn't working for me because because of that, I couldn't ever let go of that feeling. Well, I can't pursue forever and fail forever and be fine with that. I don't think I didn't think I could. But then I accepted this is what it this was my statement that I radically accepted. I want a thing that's really hard to get.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It can just exist that way. I want it, and I'm never gonna stop wanting it. I'm never gonna stop wanting that producer to hear you play, Jesse. I'll never stop.
SPEAKER_00Totally.
SPEAKER_02But we can accept if it doesn't, it doesn't. But I'm still I can I could still wish it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think that's the point I've arrived at too, which is like that want and that wish is never gonna go away. Cause like it's just the thing I love doing most. But it's also like I think you also have to like radically accept like what you're doing now and like giving it the value that it deserves. Like for me, that exists in like the way I'm performing now. You know, I'm not selling out Madison Square Garden, but I'm getting an opportunity that like a lot of people even in Omaha like would really like. Like I'm in a fairly popular band here in Omaha, and like we get to play a lot of cool venues, we get to play a lot of cool shows, and it's like you can either be like, like if you focus so hard on like waiting for the big one and like the next one, you're totally not gonna get the value out of the ones you're doing right now, which is like kind of what the whole point of it is. The whole point of art is what you're able to do with it in that given moment and like the people you're making it for, and like the people who are sharing it with you. Like I've been very, very lucky that like our band, like in music, our band has had a pretty a really cool following of people who like there's like five or six people who I know are gonna be at a show every time we play because they like our band so much and they like us and we could hang out with them. And like I've had a few show opportunities lately where we've played a pretty decently sized crowd, and it's been like, this is super awesome. Like, this is such a cool moment. We've gotten to go on tour, which I never thought would be a thing. And so like there's stuff like that where it's just like, okay, if I keep thinking, like, if I just put the value in these things, I'm gonna get so much more out of it. And that extends too to like, I do a lot of like musical theater, and I Oh, we haven't even talked about this yet. We haven't, which I was gonna say, I have to give some love to it because you got you and my mom are very big musical theater people, and it's something I it's another aspect of my performing that I totally love doing. Uh and that's another thing too, where it's like when you do community theater, which is kind of the main thing I've done in my time performing, like you're kind of you can bog yourself down with being like, I'm bigger than this, like I should be on a bigger stage doing like bigger things. It's like, but hey, you're with a collective of artists and you're all making this one piece of art together for this group of people who really wants to see this production and came to see you do it. And it's like you can either like get yourself in the dumps about that, or you can be like, I am very lucky that I was given this role and that I got, yeah, I'm getting this opportunity to perform in a way that not many people get to, and like it's going to mean a lot to a lot of people. And so I think there's just so much value to be taken out of that that it's it almost feels silly to be like, why are you wasting your time getting sad about like not having these giant opportunities when you're being given these awesome small to medium-sized opportunities all the time?
SPEAKER_02Like I hardly know there's so because I didn't even know that you wondered that if it was big enough, because you played some really awesome roles. Yeah. And um, I mean, you know, for me, Omaha community theater is a little bigger time than anything I would have around here. So it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00Um No, it's it's been very cool.
SPEAKER_02And I I name some of the roles you've played.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I will Who did you play in Rocky Horror Picture Show?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Rocky Horror Picture Show I've done a few times and I've gotten to play. The first time I did it, I was a Transylvanian, which is like sort of the ensemble for it. And then every time since, I think two or three times since, I've played Brad, who's like the main like straight guy in that show.
SPEAKER_02You played um Buddy Holly, right?
SPEAKER_00I did. I played Buddy Holly, which was again, and this is the thing that you kind of have to like ground yourself with. Like there I can think of so many like core memories from each of those shows. Like the Rocky Horror Show I can think of when we did it at the Playhouse the first time and I was just in the ensemble. They there's an element of the Rocky Horror Show where when it rains, the audience will shoot little squirt guns at you, and it's very funny. But the thing you don't account for is that then your stage is soaked in water. Oh no. So we we added this element of squirt guns, and they s they just soaked this stage in water. And it was like what they call a preview night. So you do it for a bunch of like seasoned subscribers to the Omaha Playhouse. So it's kind of like not your official opening night, but it's like a way for you to like sort of screen test it. And so they just like doused this stage in water, and then we did back to back to the two biggest dance numbers in the show. And all of us were just like eating it, just like falling down left and right. Because we're all also wearing heels too, because it's the Rocky Horror Show, and we're all like, you know, drips to the nines. And so we're all just like eating it on stage. And it's and we got off, and in the moment we were all like, oh my god, we can't do this. This is so bad. But like they neck they like nixed the the spray guns for the rest of the shows, and afterwards we were all just like, that was insane. Like it's so funny that that happened.
SPEAKER_02How did the audience react to all the eating it?
SPEAKER_00They kinda it kind of went from them being like, Woo, to them being like, oh let's pull back on these. This is honestly causing an issue.
SPEAKER_02That's so funny. So I have to I don't do I know this about you. It doesn't matter because my audience doesn't. Um so when I first asked you, when you okay, when you introduced yourself, you said you're my nephew, family, it was all about connections, relationships. And then the number one thing you said is I'm a musician. And but when you and I talked earlier, and I was giving telling you, I'll tell you some questions, but we also like to sideline or whatever, and you said, I'm a theater kid, I can I can do a good improv. Yeah. And so it was really interesting to me that you said, I'm a musician. That's your number one. And so when did theater come in? Did you have to talk yourself into it because of the acting element? Because you really just wanted to sing?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. And uh, like most all answers in my life, it comes back to uh my wife Julia. When I was in high school, it was my it was my sophomore year. No, it was my junior year. Or yeah, it was my junior year. I didn't get into theater until my junior year of high school. Okay. And I'd kind of when I was very young, when I when we were uh in rural Missouri, we did a few productions that I sang in. And but for me, when I was very small, it was like mostly just like a kind of recital, really. Like I was just singing, and that's kind of what I liked doing. But when I was in high school when I started, I was a band kid, and musician would be totally how I labeled myself. Like I did drumline and that was it. And like I did marching band and all that stuff, which is so fun, and still like a big part of my like musical identity is doing stuff like that. And that's kind of how I met a lot of my friends. But I never really thought about doing theater, and my junior year, our high school did Greece, and Julia, her favorite musical of all time is Grease. And so she was like, Jesse, you have to try out for this. And so I was like, Okay, and I was thinking about it, and then I got approached by uh I actually got approached by the high school choir director, and she came up to me, and I wasn't doing choir at the time either, because I was kind of just like, I'm just a I just want to be a band kid. I don't want to do all like choir's kind of weird, drama's kind of a lot, and so I was like, I don't want to do all that. And so the high high school choir director came up to me because in high school I would post like some videos of me online doing covers of songs and stuff, and so people at the school kind of knew I could sing like a little bit. And so she came up to me and she was like, Hi, have you thought about auditioning for Greece? And I was like, not really. I haven't been thinking about it. She's like, Well, let me just tell you, we really need some boys for this show because it's like Greece, so you need all like the the T birds, as it were, and you need all like you need a lot of like male bodies in it, and theater infamously is chock full of women and not really full of men, especially at the high school level. And so they were just like looking for anyone who could audition. And so she comes up to me, she's like, I heard you can sing. Would you consider doing the musical? And by that point, Julia had kind of like gotten in my ear too, and so I was like, Yeah, I'll try it out. Like, I'll I'll go try out. And so we we I do the tryout. This is I feel like almost like a turd saying this, but like I w I go to audio, I go to audition, and there's like there's a few guys who theater's totally their thing, and it's what they want to do. And a lot of them had their eyes on like the lead role of Danny Zucco and they wanted it super bad. And I'm like, and I was kind of just like, I'm just trying out and see what happens. So I auditioned, I got a callback, I did the callback, and then they released the cast list, and I was Danny Zuko, the lead of that musical. And so I got to do that musical, and I really liked it a lot, and I really liked the acting aspect of it too, in a way that I didn't think I would. And I re what I really like about it, most of all, and I still like it most of all to this day, is that you become very close with that group of people in this short amount of time. And it's so it's just like the perfect like breeding ground of like just very close friendships. And even like in that moment, they'll be close, and maybe they'll like dissipate as you get older, but in that moment, you're like those are your people, and like those are the only people you really talk to. You work super hard with them on this one thing, and you get you just get these very cool relationships out of it, which is honestly my favorite part of it, because it's a little bit different than it is like playing in a band or anything like that. Like when you play in a band, it's just your group of like three or four, and like it's just this very tight-knit group, but like with theater, like you can do one show where you do it with like 10 to 20 people, and then you're getting like a new 10 to 20 people each time, but those 10 to 20 people all like know each other, so you start just developing this web of relationships, which again comes back to my favorite like entertainer thing about me, which is I just really like interacting and being with people, and theater is kind of the ultimate like medium for that.
SPEAKER_02I can't believe how much this show comes back to relationships. Like that's really the key to everything, to happiness, to all of it. And that is what won you over from for theater. That is amazing. Um, you also did Guys and Dolls, by the way, another one of your mother and I's favorites.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that is also probably Julia's top two that I've ever done. She loved that one. I gotta do it with another crazy good performer who was uh in high school with me at the time, and we like we like worked so so many of our scenes we like worked super hard on, and we were just like, we're gonna make this so good. And I was a senior and I was like, I felt like a responsibility in that show to like really make it happen. And it was another year where they needed a lot of guys, and so it was it just you know, the cyclical way of things. I went from being like the they're really desperate for these guys. I guess I'll try out to then I was the one asking other guys I knew who could sing. I'm like, dude, you should think about doing the musical, like it's gonna be pretty cool. And so I became a thing where I'm like, I was like, gosh dang it, this is me now. Now I'm the person who's asking for people to do my silly little musical.
SPEAKER_02Say so my son, Drew, was also in Greece and his and he played the buddy. But I can't what is the name?
SPEAKER_00Kanicki? Uh is it Kanicki? Yeah, Kanicki.
SPEAKER_02I think he was Kanicki. Yeah, I can never get that that name right.
SPEAKER_00It's a weird name.
SPEAKER_02I would have loved if you guys could have been in the same way.
SPEAKER_00I can't believe him and I haven't done something. I mean, it makes sense because we've been in different states pretty much all our lives.
SPEAKER_02But like he's off lawyering now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's doing a cool legit name.
SPEAKER_02Andrew Bohan, you gotta get on this show when you're I was gonna say I'm shocked you haven't had him yet. He him and John Nope, I haven't had both of them have kind of like an Both of you are career men. Yes, but they have they kind of have a line like I'll I'll talk to you after this. So yeah, yeah. We've got we've got a meanwhile, my schedule pass and my schedule is wide open. We okay, I get to ask you a question that I have had for the theater and movie community for some time. Yes. Saturday night the Saturday Night Live Cast. I always want to ask them as well. How do you get over the fact that your mother is watching for certain things? You know? I mean, in your music, your shows, all the time, you you've done some edgy things.
SPEAKER_00I have.
SPEAKER_02Well, it depends on your definition of edge, but it does, but I will say I have.
SPEAKER_00I Rocky Horror Show is definitely one of those where you know it pushes the line a little bit. I very vividly recall another memory with that show, is when we did it at the playhouse, there's a sect of people at the playhouse who are like down for whatever, drama-wise. They're just like, yeah, whatever show you give us, we're totally cool with. There's an older population in the Omaha community playhouse that's pretty much just there for like the yearly a Christmas carol, but they're kind of curious what the other shows are. So we used to average like 10 people walking out per show at Rocky Horror Show when we did it. Because it'd be old, like these people who did not know what they were signing up for. They didn't really know what to expect. They were like, This is too much for us. These are not our worldviews. We gotta go. And so, yeah, so how do you get over it? Um unfortunately, it's kind of trial by fire. Like, you know what you signed up for when you're doing it, and you gotta be cool with just like anyone and everyone coming to see this. So I Rocky Horror Show, the first time I did it, I was like, this isn't too bad, but like it was a warm-up because at first I was just the person who was just like dancing around and being like, we're kind of weird and freaky. And then like the next year, I was the guy who got his clothes stripped off and then got put into fishnets and got asked to dance around half naked. Uh, and really, I will say the the thing that got me to be like, you know what? Like, at the end of the day, you just got to put on the show and just like not worry about it, is my grandma, my grandma Cherie on my dad's side, came to see the first Rocky horror show I did. And I was like, What are you doing here, grandma? This is not for you.
SPEAKER_02Did she know what to expect?
SPEAKER_00She did. She knew what she was coming in for, and she was like, She's like, I just wanted to see you perform. And I was like, All right. So luckily I wasn't the one in the in the heat of it for that production, but the next ones I don't think she came to because it I got a little more involved. The other show that my mom came to see that is the one that is more intense, that Julia, it's probably Julia's favorite, probably my favorite too. It's called Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of like a one-person show, basically. It's me and one other person on stage, and uh my buddy Connor, he said it's he said it's his favorite too, because he kind of couldn't believe that we did it. But it's basically like a giant monologue that I do. And it's kind of like a stand-up routine mixed with like a rock show. And so I'm just talking the whole time, and I'm telling this story. It's like a crazy story about like this person who gets a sex change operation that gets botched because they want to go to the states as a woman, but it doesn't work out, and the person they were gonna go to the states with abandons them, and so they have to like sort of find themselves and like who they are, and it's so it's like this wild, wild story. It's pretty like out there if you're not in that world. And so I told my mom when she came to see it, I was like, it's gonna be a little crazy, but it's really freaking good. The heart of it is like unbelievable. And there's like a moment at the end where I'm the whole time I'm dressed up like a drag queen and I'm like dolled up. I've got these heels on, I've got like I have fake tomatoes in my shirt to act as boobs, and I like at the end of the show, I take off basically everything, take these tomatoes and smash it all over myself, and I'm just in my shorts and that's it. I got nothing else on. And so that was another show where I'm just like, listen, you gotta be, you you just have to be in the moment. You can't be thinking about how you're being perceived, because you just have to like, because if you like leave the commitment of that show at all, and if you give any hint of I feel silly, or like you get any hint of like you're like slightly embarrassed at all, then everyone's out of it. And then you've just done everyone a disservice. So I'm kind of like, I've always been sort of in my head morally obligated to just do the show no matter how wild it is, like no matter who's coming to see it, and I kind of just have to be like, listen, I'm gonna give them the precursor, let them know it's gonna get crazy, and then I'm just gonna do what I'm gonna do, and I can't worry about who's watching it and what they think about it.
SPEAKER_02So two two questions. First of all, that reminds me of your mom when she taught me. Um I I can get emotional when I sing in front of people just because like you can feel their energy coming out at you, and it just can get me going. Um, and she sang so many funerals and I had to sing some as well. And I'm like, how do you do it without crying? She's like, I become the ice queen. She's like, you just have to tell yourself, I have to sing these words so they can be emotional. I can't mess it up, or they don't get to experience what they need to experience. It's so beautiful, it was so beautiful. And look at you kind of doing the same thing. And what I want, what I'm wondering, did you ever I never saw it? A movie called It's more than this. It's Precious. The character's name is Precious, it's a hard story and a little bit. Yes, yes. That's the one. Okay, and the woman who won for the mom role, whose name Octavia Butler, right? Octavia Butler. Is that her name?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's Octavia Spencer. Spencer, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_02She when she accepted the award, she said, when I was given this script, I was nervous. And my husband said, Don't judge it, just be it. That's what she said in her acceptance speech. And this is what I'm wondering. When you are playing that role, you're stripping down to your shorts and rubbing tomatoes all over yourself. Whatever. Are you thinking do it well for the entertainment value? Or is there a part of you that is these stories are important to tell?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's a hundred percent these stories are important to tell for me. It's like that, I like I had I had a very interesting period with that show because I started like typically like for like community shows, you kind of just like when the rehearsals start, you just kind of get into it from then, figure out all your stuff and go for it. I like prepped for that Hedwig show like a month before we started rehearsals because the script is so dense. And I remember getting so into it that like, you know, it sounds like very like actor-coded to say, but I really did feel like I became Hedwig every night. And like, I like you get into this sense of otherness where you are just like so within that person that even the idea of perceiving like your parent or any relative to you being there feels so silly and like not even like it's not even at the forefront of your mind. Like you're just thinking like you're so in the moment of like, what am I feeling right now? How do I express that? And like I'm always thinking about like I'm thinking about the technical aspects of it, and I'm like thinking about like how do I show this on my face, how do I show this in my actions, how do I show this in the way I'm singing this? And I like really had that with Hedwig, and I also really had that with uh my show Rent that I did, because uh I remember there would be s some nights where I would like let myself like out of being very within that character uh for rent because there would be people there that I knew the story really impacted. Like there's one moment where uh our musical director for that show, uh he uh was a he's a gay man and he had his husband uh attend the show. And I remember he told us before the show that the show meant a lot to him and his husband because the the main e the main thing of rent, if anyone doesn't know, is it's basically just these young people dealing with the AIDS crisis in New York, uh, and essentially like how to live, how to work, and how to like just be human through it all. And so the show meant a lot to these two men because they knew people who they lost in this in this AIDS crisis, and like people who were taken from them, and like and so I remember where there's there's like a part of the show where it's sort of like a big emotional climax for me because uh I'm just like my character is has AIDS and he wants to make like one song before he passes away, like because he knows he's gonna die, but he just like wants to be known for one big thing. And so I remember there was one night where like I was really in it, and like there's this one song that this uh other character sings when their partner passes away. And my mom can be witness to this. It's probably the hardest either of us have ever cried is when this person sang this song because uh the actor, his name was DJ, he's one of the most unbelievable singers I've ever heard, and he's singing this beautiful song. And in the moment, like you're just I'm on stage as a character just watching. And in that moment, I like let myself get out of it for one second, and I like looked at our musical director's husband who was there, and he's just like bawling. And I'm like already emotional because of this song. So I start like sobbing on stage, and I'm just like Were you supposed to? No. Well, I mean it works because it worked. Okay, we're at a funeral in that moment, and he's singing about his partner who passed away. So it's like, okay, I could cry, but like I was crying as Jesse, not as my character Roger. And so I'm just like sobbing, and I I like had to pull it together a little bit. It kind of worked out because it's a very emotional show, but like in that moment I was like, oh, I'm like a little out of it right now. And uh I've had that before in other shows too, where you're like you're kind of in your own head about the emotions you're going through and you're letting it get on stage and kind of have to be like, okay, like like my mom said, you kind of have to be the ice queen a little bit and be like, okay, I need to like let the emotion of this character come through more than my own, because then I again I'm doing a disservice to the material and to this show if I'm like letting me get too much into it.
SPEAKER_02Was your mom in that same did she know the story of that you're telling? So did she see him that would have rooked her?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I actually don't know if she knew that exact story when we were watching it, but I think I told her afterwards and she was like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Man, um we have we gotta talk about what you do for a living because we haven't even talked about my job. This is all I know. And okay, and how you're at peace with it because you are. I know. So so what happened? You you needed to pivot from the studio.
SPEAKER_00I needed to pivot from the studio, and uh I another thing about me that like kind of contributed to it is I'm very bad at asking for help at specific in specific things, especially like sometimes it comes up if I'm not feeling very well. I'll do, I'll kind of try and tough it out and like not really tell anyone I'm not feeling well. And then like if it gets worse, like Julie will be like, Hey, are you sick right now? I'm like, No. She's like, Yes, you are, and so and I'm like, Yeah, you're right. And so I got into this position where I was just like, the studio thing didn't work out, and I was just like, What am I gonna do? Like I because my only my only other job experience was working in a pet food shop when I was 16 as a little job, which with the raw food for animals, yes, and I became very well versed in animal nutritional knowledge, which feels ridiculous to even say now. Uh, but I didn't have a lot of like things on paper, like I didn't have a lot that made me look like an interesting candidate, which then puts you in an even deeper hole when you're like trying to pivot because you're like, I don't even have anything to pivot to, because I don't have anything to prove to you what I can do. So I reached out to my dad, who was in a very similar position uh when we moved to Omaha, where he had been doing music stuff for his whole life in terms of his job of like being like the lead worship guy at our church. And now he had to like find a way to make money and like support our family while my mom was doing school in Omaha, uh, which is one of the best things that's ever happened to us is moving to Omaha. But I do very much recall that it was a tough time like for them figuring out job stuff, things like that. So I hit up my dad. I was like, hey, I'm kind of in a tough spot. I don't think this studio thing is gonna work out, and I really want to look for another job. I don't know quite what to do. And so he's like, let's he's like, let me talk to people. Because he he's been in a lot of uh he's in a company right now called WP Engine that came from this startup called Flywheel. And for From that company, he's made a ton of connections in like the tech world, which is still what I had my toe in from college. Like I was like the tech part of music tech still existed for me. So my dad was like, hey, I've got this buddy that I used to work with. He's got this new company called Opus One. You should like throw in a resume and just like apply for it. And so the job was for an onboarding specialist, which I had no experience for. So I like submitted my application for it. I was just like, whatever. Like I had submitted hundreds of applications for other stuff at this point too, which is why I'd gotten to this point. Like I'd I'd heard from nobody, and I try I kept trying to be like slightly artsy music adjacent, and it just wasn't working. And so I applied for this job, and the guy who my dad knew hit me up. He's like, hey, Jesse. He's like, you're Dan's kid, right? I'm like, yeah, I'm Dan's kid. He's like, dude, uh super cool to see your uh resume. Uh so for this job, I don't think you're quite qualified for that. Is that fair to say? I'm like, yeah, totally fair to say. I don't think I'm quite qualified for it either. But uh your company seems really cool. And so he's like, okay, like we have another position we're looking at. It's a little lower and it's a kind of an entry-level position. I'd love to get you in there. And I'm like, awesome. So this company, Opus One, is a software for music schools. And essentially what it is, is it's an all-in-one billing, scheduling, client data. You can put all of it in this browser-based software and basically entirely run your music school from it. It's more for like private music schools. And so I was like, okay, cool, music and tech. And so my first job with them was I uh did chat support for them, which is the first job my dad had as a startup person too. And so I'm at the startup company doing chat support. And uh honestly, right away, it was awesome. Like the culture of a startup is very, very fun because it's just like it's a little less self-serious than other companies because it's like it's so small. Like when I got there, I was probably employee number 20, 30. Like it's and it's a totally remote operation. Like everyone lives in different parts of the US. We have people who live in Europe, in Africa, Asia, like we're spread everywhere. It's super duper fun. And I actually, the timing of it was really fun for me because when I got to the company, they were like, hey, we're actually doing our first ever company retreat. Uh, and you should totally come. Like, and I and by that point I hadn't worked a lick. Like, I I just got hired and I was still in like training for this chat support role. So, but they were just like, come on out. So it was in Nashville, and I was like, heck yeah. So they flew me out to Nashville, and I gotta meet the whole team, got to meet everyone in person before I ever really worked with them.
SPEAKER_02In Nashville? In Nashville.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It was awesome. It was like so fun. And so we gotta like go to a bunch of bars and check out all these different music scenes happening, all these musicians playing. And so it was so fun. And like I got to get into like the culture of this company, and like it's just very good people wanting to make a cool product for a very underrepresented demographic, which is music schools, and like having like the software that exists outside of us is not great. And so we kind of are like giving good software for these schools to use that's gonna make them operational. So I like got in at the perfect time with this company, and I immediately was just like, this is awesome. Like, I'm really enjoying this job. And like I worked in chat support for like eight months, and then they hit me up and they're like, hey, we want to give you a promotion and we want to promote you to uh an onboarding specialist, which is the original job I applied for that I was totally not.
SPEAKER_02I think I've heard of that, you say.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so it's it was a very full circle thing. I work at I work in that position now, and it's just been great. Like it's a very chill job since it's totally remote. You're not really reporting to anybody, especially now in my current role. So my current role is I'm an onboarding specialist, and so I do one-on-one meetings with uh business owners, and we work on making sure that they can basically migrate all their info and basically their policies and how they operate into our product. So I do I work a lot one-on-one with people on like how can we make sure that the way you operate your music school works with some of the automations, some of the ways our software functions. And I basically help these people get their business like live on our software. And so it's really fun because it's it keeps the relational aspect of things that I really love. Because when I did chat support, it was good because you're talking to people and I felt like I was doing very good at it. But like you're there's like the you get like a screen, a chat window between you where you don't actually know this person you're talking to. And now I'm in this role where I'm like literally seeing these people like over a call like this, and we just like talk about whatever they need help with, how I can like get them up and rolling, and then like by the end of it, they like use this product that totally changes how they operate their school. And it's super music adjacent. Yeah, that's the thing. And it's like, so it's fun because like if you asked me, if you asked me like when I came out of college, if I would have been happy doing a job like this that's more like tech and kind of music adjacent, I'd have been like, no, like I want to do the recording thing. Like that's what I want to do. But like where I'm at now, I'm like, I couldn't like really be more fortunate in how everything like ended up for me because like I'm in a music adjacent job and a company that loves music, by the way. Like we have a bunch of musicians in this company, and like we put we'll do like talent shows sometimes, and everyone just like shows off their songs. And like we have like a music lovers Slack channel where everyone shows what they're listening to. And so it's really it's become a thing where I'm just like, man, I'm really lucky that I have a job I enjoy that also is appreciative of music. So sometimes I'll be like, hey, I need this weekend, or like I'll need this week off because I'm going on tour with my band. And they'll be like, heck yeah, have a good time. So I'm just have good PTO? It has really good PTO. It's unlimited, it's unlimited PCO. You pretty much just have to like make sure you're not leaving the team high and dry. But if you're good on that front, then they're basically just like, yeah, man, like have a good time. They're like very much like, take your PTO, that's there's a reason it exists, it exists. So it's a really, really good culture, and uh it's gotten even more fun and kind of ridiculous because they were hiring for the chat support role that I left, and they were looking for two people, and specifically, I don't know why. They're specifically looking for people in Omaha, and so I was like, I have two buddies of mine who are looking for jobs, and so I referred both of them, and like these are like my two closest friends, Connor and Cole. And I referred them and they both got the job. Oh, right. So now the three of us buddies. So now the three of us work this job together, and it's become it's gotten to the point where we're just like, this is crazy. Like we just hang out all the time.
SPEAKER_02Jesse, your life is you have what Nathan Bransford was talking about, the creative ecosystem. It's in place, it kind of all feeds itself, each other.
SPEAKER_00Totally.
SPEAKER_02And the pieces don't really seem in conflict.
SPEAKER_00They aren't. And that's that's what has been really awesome for me is that like I feel like my work almost helps me carve out time better for my music and for my art that I do. Because when I was like doing the the recording thing, and even like in college where I would do like odds, ends, and jobs like here and there, like my schedule was so wonky, like and I would do things all over the place. And like community theater especially is built to revolve around nine to fives because they know that people work day jobs. And so like you rehearse in the evening, and like that's you do that, and like you do the performances on weekends, like you don't really perform during the week. And like, so it's specifically carved for like a nine to five, which is what I'm currently working. Uh, and I remember when I was younger, it was almost like harder for me to make that work because I didn't have a nine to five. Like, I would do a bunch of music gigs to try and like make ends meet. I would do a bunch of like recording stuff. So I would be working into that evening time that sh could have been reserved for more like theater productions and things like that. And so now I'm like, oh, I actually have like more time because I have dedicated work time and I don't have to worry about like I'm in a great position where I can make money off my main thing, and now like the music thing doesn't have to give me money and give me like resources. It can just be fun. So I can just seek out like shows I want to do for theater. I can just seek out like projects I want to do with my friends and like recording just for the fun of it and less for like making like the record that's gonna get us out, you know. Like it's just everything is just more fun now because the steadiness that work has provided me.
SPEAKER_02See, this is the moment where I'm like, and that's our show because that is the thing. Like that's the peace of mind that I have fought so hard, and it's such a great peace of mind to get to. Would you say we talked about the that thing you do being really tight, the story being really tight. And the typical story arc is you want, want, want a thing, and everything in your life is pursuing that thing. And then you may get it actually, but you've lost things that you, you know, you you may have gotten it and you didn't get Julia, and so then you you're you crash because you realize, oh, really, actually, Julia was the thing I wanted most, whatever. But for you, you want, want, want, and didn't get crashed. You know, you kind of had and then would you and then what happens in a movie is they kind of come back up and plateau. So they're not as top of the mountain as they were hoping in the beginning. Yeah. But they're kind of would you say you're there? Is that the party of the story you're in? Like, I think I'm I think I'm at peace.
SPEAKER_00I think a hundred percent. At twenty five, she asks, but yeah, you know, as as as at peace as you can be at twenty five when there's still so many things changing in your life. But like, no, I I definitely feel like it. I I've been telling basically anyone who will listen that I feel like my life has reached a balance that I've never had before, which is like when I was like younger and just doing the music thing very hard, I would I would work at it so hard that like I never developed a consistent schedule because you just needed to like give time to everything. So in that way, you had to be available for anything and everything. But like contrastly, you would almost make yourself available for nothing because nothing was consistent. You couldn't schedule around anything. And it seems so silly, but it's like the having a nine to five and actually like a steady job, just it just unlocks time for you that you just didn't have previously. Wow. And like, and it's given me structure that I haven't had previously. Like, I'm on the best sleep schedule of my life right now. And like, especially with Julia like being in the throes of residency right now, like she gets up like very early. And like, if you'd have talked to me like even a year ago, I I would not be beating the sun to waking up. Like I'm like a I'm a sleep in guy. Even now, I'm still like I really like sleeping. But I have gotten like to the point where I've been waking up, and this sounds insane. I've been waking up at 5 30 in the morning lately.
SPEAKER_02Jessie.
SPEAKER_005 30 in the morning.
SPEAKER_02There's another 5 30 besides the supper time.
SPEAKER_00I know. I that's awesome. I yeah, I wake up at 5 30, I go work out with my dad, which is really fun. It's been a new thing I've been doing. I go to work, I get off work, and I'm typically like Julia's done around that same time too. So we're either just like hanging out at home, or we're doing something with our friends, or I'm doing some sort of rehearsal. Uh, but I'm like, I've now I'm like, oh my God, I have like blocks of time. I can a lot of things.
SPEAKER_02This is wild. This is blowing my mind because this is I wanted to talk about weekends, I told you. Yes. So the nine to five to me has felt like a freaking prison. And because it it's I felt like it was stealing all this time I could have been putting into the art. But you had this world in which you were putting all time plus no time is kind of how you described it, like to the art. And then when you put the job in, it built structure. Okay, so this is this is my question about weekends. What happens, I feel like, with a lot of us is we get the Sunday night blues, we do not enjoy the job, we can't wait for Friday, but then the weekend comes and we're aimless. And it actually doesn't feel as good as we wanted it to. And we just scroll and we just binge, and then we're tired and we stay up too late, and then we really didn't prepare ourselves for Monday that well. I I have friends that I talk to about this. The weekend feels doesn't feel good, which is breaks my heart because I'm like, but that's what we all want all week. What's the weekend's for?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is the weekend, and then we don't know how to use it. It sounds like you know how to use it, would you say? Like you even said earlier, you're kind of like a day to do nothing? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I think I think now because again, I have that time that can't be dedicated to like I can't just like rehearse for something in the middle of the day. Like I can't just like do some sort of project with someone randomly on a whim, like I was able to in the past. Now my times are we can rehearse in the evening and we can perform on weekends, and like that's just how it's gonna be. So, more often than not, I've got something going on in the weekend where I'm like, I'm doing a show, or I'm going to a show with some friends, or my friends are coming over and we're doing something. So it's like, and it works out well because again, I'm married to someone who does not like to be doing nothing. And so we're there's about there's three types of things that can be happening at any given point in the Jesse Julia household. One is we're working on this house, which is we just recently moved with Julia moving to residency. We got a house here in Omaha, which has been so awesome. But we got like plenty of projects we want to work on. So we're either working on a project, we are going to a show or something that I'm doing, or we are just hanging out with some friends and having people over. One of those three things is typically happening. So you're for Julia, a weekend is something to look forward to because she needs an event. Because in my head in the past, I'd have been the same mentality where I'm like, weekend means nothing. I'm gonna like maybe play a video game until my eyes burn. I'm gonna sit in Doom Scroll. But and I like previously didn't really want a lot going on weekend except for maybe like a show or something. But now I'm like, I don't know, it's kind of fun to have something to look forward to to do on the weekend because then you just like are dedicating your time to something there. And then once you do that, then you feel like you've almost like earned the burning your eyes for playing video games and doom scrolling. Because then it's like, okay, well, I did our th we did our thing. We had a good productive day. Now let's just chill out for the rest of the day. Now we don't have to worry about like getting ready for Sunday, like we're just gonna hang out and chill. So that's kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um I'm gonna ask so a question I love to ask someone as young as you do you feel like a grown-up?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. I feel like it depends on the day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh my gosh, I think Serena said the same thing.
SPEAKER_00It totally depends on the day because like Monday through Friday, I feel pretty adult just in terms of doing a job. And I do and even at the job I do right now, it's very funny because like I'm 25, I'm pretty much always younger than my clients that I'm talking to. So it's very funny because I know more than these clients know about this platform. And so I'm like kind of a little bit in charge of them, which feels like so silly. Like, but like you're in that moment. And again, it's it kind of it's it seems like a silly comparison to make, maybe, but like it kind of goes back to the actor thing of like you have to play the role and you can't show any like thing of like I feel silly or embarrassed, or else we're all gonna feel kind of silly in the moment. So if I'm at at any point like, I am 25, I shouldn't be in charge of these people, then they're gonna be like, this kid's 25, he shouldn't be in charge of us. So you kind of have to be like, no, I know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00I'm able to lead these people. And like you can like get them set and like feel like an adult, a grown-up. But then conversely, sometimes Friday will hit. My friends want to play, you know, Minecraft or Fortnite, and then we'll play, you know, some sort of game together like that. And like my latest thing I've been dedicating time to on the weekends is my friends have wanted to do a Dungeons and Dragons campaign. And so I'm trying to build one right now for all of us to play together. So in that moment, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm still a kid at heart of like playing my silly little games and stuff. But on the on the nine to five, I feel like an adult. I sometimes feel like an adult whenever I'm like organizing a hangout. But then as soon as we get into a hangout, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm still 25 and a little young and stupid.
SPEAKER_02When do you feel most like yourself? Who you are, what you believe, and what you're doing are all aligned.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Uh when I'm with my friends and when I'm with my family, like hanging out, that's like a hundred percent me. Because I'm like, me and my buddies, we work together a lot, you know, now that we have this job together, and it's fun, but we all kind of have a rule that we try to have with each other. It's like we don't really like to talk about work too much because it can get because once you start it, it's a it's a snowball effect. Because once you mention one little thing, then you want to mention that one other thing you thought about, and then all you're doing is talking about work, and it's like you're leaving out a lot of people in a conversation, which is not my MO. I'm a very big everything gets to be involved in the convo. So we are like try not to talk about it too much. And so it gets so when we're hanging out, we're just like being ourselves and talking about the things we like to talk about most, which is just like, you know, something silly we saw on the internet or like what we've got going on in our lives, like various stuff like that. So it's I think I'm most me when I'm in a group of friends hanging out, or when I'm with my family hanging out, like and I I've gotten to a point where those two groups of people I'm starting to like just merge into one. Oh, yeah. Like even we just had on Wednesday, we had this is again another uh thing that makes me feel not quite adult, but also adult, is we had our fantasy football draft. And previously, like we had like I had like an established group with some people, but I was just like, I want to do it more with like people I actually interact with on the day-to-day. So now my fantasy football group consists of Julia's younger siblings, her dad, my dad, and my sister Ada, my best buddies, my Julia's cousins, and so we've got like 12 people who are like a collection of family and friends that are now in this like one little thing. And I think that group type of group of like a combo of family and friends, that when I'm with those people and we're hanging out, just like shooting the am I allowed to curse on here?
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Shooting the shit. Uh-huh. Like if we're shooting the shit, like I'm having a good time. That's me.
SPEAKER_02That is amazing. I love that that you feel most like yourself when you're actually with the people you love. And I don't know, so interesting. Community's so important.
SPEAKER_00It is. And there's this interesting thing too, like, you know, you would think it's like when I'm on the stage, I'm most myself. Yes. But to me, everything you do on stage is in some way a performance, like a little bit. Right. Like, even like, or like it's a little bit put on and it needs to be. Like you need to like do what you're doing times 10, because it's way more interesting. No one wants to like I'm very well known when I play drums for like looking insane. Like I make crazy faces and get really into it. And half of that is just naturally what I'm doing, but a lot of it is I'm like emphasizing a lot of movements and stuff because I know it looks interesting. Uh and I have a thing when I get off stage, when I'm still in like show mode, that Ada Ada and Julia make fun of me for uh is that when people like congratulate me on doing a show or something, I'm still in that performance mode. So I'm not being very genuine, but I'll be like, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And I'll be like, say say it like that, and they'll always make fun of the way I say it because like you don't talk like that. Like you only talk like that in show mode. So all that to say, like, I think even being on stage and performing, you're still not like a hundred percent you. Like there's still like a Jesse, the performer versus Jesse himself that you're like you're battling when you're on stage. So to me, it's like when I'm away from those performing moments and I'm just like entertaining my friends and like being with my family, that's a hundred percent me.
SPEAKER_02I love that you can answer that question. I actually every time I ask that question of someone in my own head, I'm going, I don't know if I can answer that for myself. Um it's a hard one, it's a hard one to answer, I think. And my I agree with you about performing because when I dream about acting, what I like about it is that I could disappear into a and not be me anymore, be something else, be anything else, you know.
SPEAKER_00I think that is the most interesting aspect of it, honestly, because for me, the kind of goofy side of it to me is like I, in the grand scheme of things, have not endured a lot of hardship, you know. Yeah. I'm from a a middle class family. I'm what? I'm straight. I have like not a lot of major problems that other people have gone through in life. And so when you get certain roles of like someone who's going through the AIDS crisis. Or someone who wants to be a whole different person and can't go to the US because of who they are. When you get like these roles of like Buddy Hawley, like this guy who had a huge career ahead of him and then passed away super duper young because of like a plane crash. Like you can get these roles where you're just like embodying these people that you could never be because your life is just so different than theirs. And it gives you, I think it gives you, and I'm and every actor in the world has talked about this, it gives you this very empathetic worldview where like you can put yours you can put yourself in anyone's shoes and you start to like, I don't know, you start to get very much believe in this collective humanity of just like we're all just walking the same path, but it's just like it diverges, but we're all just like the same at the end of the day, really. Like, I don't know. It's it's so fun. So I think, and honestly, I've been thinking lately, I need to get back into my theater game and now this podcast is really gonna make me like look at what shows are happening around me for sure.
SPEAKER_02That's my favorite thing, is when the podcast like actually makes someone want to do something or ask themselves something, or oh my gosh, it makes me so happy. I have so many questions. We're gonna skip and just go go to the end, basically. Oh, I did have one question about hanging out. Um, I've always I always want to ask people this do you believe in the concept of one conversation? This guy, um, Hyatt, his last name was Michael Hyatt. He used to say when he would have his family over for dinner, his grown children and their spouses and stuff, that he would tell them we're gonna have one conversation at the table because he didn't want all these little side, he wanted everybody in the same. Do you feel that way? Or when you get together, is it like everybody do you think? Side side combo's fine.
SPEAKER_00That's a oh man. I feel like I can take, I can I'm cool with it both ways. Yeah. My I think the biggest thing for me is everyone has to be involved in some way or another.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's what I heard you say.
SPEAKER_00And that's I feel very strongly about that. That to me is the key to my entertainment. Uh like my aspect is like everyone needs to be involved. Because to me, that's when my best relationships have been in for in like have been created is through that because when I first met Julia, the very first way I met Julia was we were at a Halloween party and the and uh there was a lot of conversations happening, and there was some of those, not one conversation, but there was multiple conversations happening. And Julia was just kind of sitting in a corner by herself, not for like lack of anyone talking to her, but like she was just kind of chilling, just like it, and but I was just like, we gotta get this girl involved in some conversation. So I like went over and talked to her, and we were just like chatting for a while. And so it wasn't anything like we didn't talk about anything, or like that wasn't a moment where I was like, oh my god, I'm in love. Like it wasn't anything like that. I was just like, just like ch talking with this person, but then I would like talk with her more and more every time I saw her in different avenues. And then I was just like, it got to a point where Julia was like my closest friend because we would just keep hanging out and keep talking. And then like we both kind of realized, like, oh, I think we like both like each other a whole lot. And so then we started going out and now we're married and have a house, and it's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Oh gosh, your need to make sure everyone is having fun and involved got you a soulmate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, pretty much. And I'm like, I'm like, all right, this is it. This is this has to be me. It's worked out flawlessly before. So for me, I'm like, when I'm hanging out with people, like we could totally have side convos and like people like diverging, but every every basically everyone has to have a buddy. Everyone's gotta have some sort of conversational buddy. And if that's if that's happening, then I think it's all it's all good.
SPEAKER_02So good. I love it. Oh my gosh. Okay. Uh are we gonna go to the end right now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, two two more questions. The the last one and this one. Is there anything you wish I had asked you?
SPEAKER_00Anything you I don't know. Honestly, I feel like we hit all the major points that I really wanted to talk about. I didn't even think we're gonna get super into the theater of it all, but I love talking about the theater of it all.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all hearts clear. You feel like you have said your piece to be ideas for a living audience. Absolutely. All right, Jesse. You've been amazing. Okay, what is something that has worked for you? Big or small, aha moment, or regularly works for you to help you find more meaning in life.
SPEAKER_00That is a really good one. I feel like I feel like I don't know, I feel like I keep saying the same thing, but it really has just been my thing lately of just like being with my friends and like my family. Like I think there is like like the whole point of life is to just be with people of like and any kind of people, but really like your closest people is really what's just gonna make everything worth it. Cause like for me and Julia, like we were in Kansas City for a while with her med school stuff, and it was really, really fun. And we have really great friends that we got out there, like two of our closest friends live in Kansas City still. Uh, but like we were kind of away from these people that we had really close relationships with in Omaha. And ever since we've moved back, we have felt like we've never been closer with our friends and like have never like our relationships with them have never been this deep and this like intimate. And it's just been like the joy of our lives being back here because we've just been able to be back for like big moments in people's lives, especially like for Julia. She's got younger siblings who are like going through really cool like parts of life. Like her oldest sibling is about to graduate high school. She's got another sibling who's about to start high school. She's got other kids who like siblings who are starting like different sports and stuff. So it just means a lot to us to be able to be back and like see these moments. And like it's fun for me too. My sister Ada, who I mentioned, she uh just started law school back in Omaha and she was out in Wisconsin for a while. So it's like we're kind of just like all we're back to all of our people with all of our people who mean the most to us. And so for me, like the meaning of life is just being with those people and like furthering those relationships.
SPEAKER_02Love it. I know I feel like you're living your dream, your mother's dream for you. Like your mother would have wanted this, your mom, my sister. It's she she moved you guys to Omaha, you know, she and your dad moved to Omaha, and they felt in if they felt it was important to them where what part of Omaha they lived in, what kind of life they were building, that you were in a school that you would stay in that was important to Felicity. She didn't want you moving around anymore, and things like that. And now you've built this whole life out of that community and you're back in it, and you're so happy there. It's gotta be like just the dream for her.
SPEAKER_00It is. And it it was something I brought up at uh me and Julia's wedding. I did like a toast about and I was just like sobbing through it because I was just so emotional. But like it really like it, everything I've gotten in life that has been so great has been because of that move by my parents of like bringing us to Omaha and bringing us to like this community. Because I never would have met Julia. And the thing that's even crazier about it for me is that like Julia's family did the same thing. Like her dad, uh, he went through med school and he was in Virginia, he was in Rhode Island, he was in Japan for a while, he was all over the U.S. But they started in Omaha basically and they came back to Omaha. And like Julia had been in Omaha for like a few years before I met her, but she could have been like anywhere. And like it was just, I don't know, it's crazy to me. Like, she's my best friend, and like it's crazy that like because of the moves of both of our parents for their work, like they both ended up in Omaha, and like now I've been able to like have this pretty awesome life with all these people.
SPEAKER_02It's a pretty awesome life. I appreciate you so much, and I'm I will be think as I do, I will be thinking about this episode because it's really inspiring how you have connected the dots and you're at peace with it, yeah, and you know, angst be gone. Totally. Yeah, I think I can learn from you.
SPEAKER_00Totally. I think uh again, I think right now in the current stage of life, like I'm just feeling amazing about where I'm at. But like, you know, I think if I had one thing I wanted to like say my piece about, or like maybe like that you wanted to ask me, I just like I just want people to know, like especially in my age range, that like there like work doesn't have to be like this sort of terrifying thing that takes away from that art, it takes away from that time. It can actually be the thing that gives you that time. And like amazing. The other thing too is like I feel like it's so hard right now for a lot of people to find work, to find like jobs that fit them, especially for people like me who like maybe came from school and weren't able to find the position they were looking for for what they studied. I'm like, you just gotta lean on your people. And that's really the biggest thing I could and tell anyone. Because I when I was look looking for something, I was like, so like I'm gonna find it myself. But the moment I like talked to my dad, who was in a similar position, I I immediately found this amazing position that's totally opened up all these things in life for me.
SPEAKER_02Lean on your people.
SPEAKER_00Lean on your people.
SPEAKER_02What a beautiful way to end. So good. So good and such good advice for people that it can actually give you the time you need for the things you love.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Jesse, thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me. This is so fun. I knew it was gonna be so fun. I've been excited about the prospect of it forever. So I'm so glad we made it happen.
SPEAKER_02I can't wait for people to meet you.
SPEAKER_00I can't wait either. It's gonna say fun.
SPEAKER_02Talk to you later.
SPEAKER_00All right, bye.