Starting a Business and What I'll Never Do Again with Ashley Rott-Nettleton

Meet Ashley Rott-Nettleton, Serenity's market research mentor and forever friend. Ashley leveraged a financial layoff (from a company that still desperately wanted to work with her) by starting her own biz! Now she has that client plus many others, is her own boss, and will "never go back." Ashley tells you how it's done (even when you're risk-averse!), and she and Serenity talk about work philosophy, negotiating for your worth, and never apologizing. 

Chapters
7:37 Serenity's day job (finally!) or what is market research?
9:57 Participating in market research (it's not a side hustle)
13:59 Serenity's start in market research/meeting Ashley
20:47 When the workload fluctuates
24:25 The near impossibility of saying no in client services  
28:09 Convincing experts that market research is legit
32:41  How to find remote jobs
40:46 One thing about Ashley's work that matters
45:24 Thank a business you love! Write a review
48:51 Ashley's quitting story
53:44 Salary negotiating - Ashley's story
56:20 Never again (insisting on the work-life balance you value)
1:01:04 From layoff to starting a business
1:08:51 Even the risk-averse can do it!
1:12:42 Is starting a business for you?
1:17:20 Work philosophy (do what you love vs. make enough for a life you love )
1:21:47 Work with Ashley!
1:24:32 It worked for me (a request)
1:29:12 Stop apologizing at work

Links
Sign up for Ashley's panel to get paid for your opinions: https://insightrecruit.com/join-our-panel/

Hire Ashley to recruit for you: https://insightrecruit.com/services/
Ashley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/insightrecruit/

FlexJobs: https://www.flexjobs.com/lp/remote-jobs1 (linger on the site for a while, then hover over the X to close it, and it might offer a discount)

HireMyMom: https://www.hiremymom.com/

Serenity's sarcastic blog post about starting a business to crush your dreams: https://www.serenitybohon.com/blog/think-again

I Do This For a Living is independently produced. 

@serenitylive

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to I Do This for a Living, a show that asks how we can give as much time and energy to the things that matter as we do to the things that pay. Sometimes the things that matter pay. And we'll talk about that too. I'm Serenity Bohan, and I started this podcast so I could have work I love. Today, for the first time, we'll also talk about the other work I do, what I do in my billable hours. I haven't really talked about that much. It is in the market research industry. And today I'm going to talk to one of my all-time work besties, Ashley Ratt Edleton. We met when I started in market research in 2020. She had been there for a minute and was immediately my mentor. But as we talk about in the episode, there she very quickly became not just a coworker who helped me out with the work, but a true friend. And I really don't do well when I don't talk to her fairly often. And it has been a bit since we spoke because she's very busy with her company that she started in the industry. And we talk about that today too. And it was so good to hear from her again and get some of my laughter is the best medicine kind of conversation with her. So I can't wait for you to meet her. I can't wait for you to hear her story about um starting her own business, but also several little milestones along the way that have given her real aha moments about how she wants to be at work and what she believes in and what's important to her. But it's good stuff. Can't wait for you to hear it. Let's get to it. Hey Ashley, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Um, I have been trying to get you forever. Like since the beginning of time. You're the like main person I wanted on this show. In fact, I may never do an episode again. I got Ashley now.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Okay, so and yes, I'm so sorry it took so long. I'm glad that we're finally able to do this. It's really part, it's really like true to the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

We're talking about work and how work is a big deal in our lives. And that's really what's been keeping you from me. Like, tell the people what has been keeping you from me. I mean, we haven't even like chatted in a while. I know. So, what is it that you do, Ashley?

unknown 2:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

So I am uh I started my own company about, well, two years ago almost exactly. Um, so I'm the founder of Insight Recruit and we recruit participants for market research and user experience studies. Um, so when companies want to like better understand people who use their products or services, we help find the right participants so researchers can have meaningful conversations that lead to better products and smarter decisions. Um, and so these last three months have been just crazy busy with different projects that I've been working on. And that is why I have not spoken to you in a lot.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

And you you run your own company, so it's not like you could hand it off. Here, somebody else do my projects I can podcast with Serenity.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yes, that is very true. And it it comes in waves. Like there's times where it's very slow. Like um after the new year, usually it's a little slower. So I probably could have done a very long podcast with you then. Um then it it comes and then and then all of a sudden you have, you know, a bunch of projects at once. Um so you just learn to embrace it and you take advantage of the slow time and you prepare for the busy time.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

We should have done a quarter one episode. It's so true. Did you didn't we used to work for someone who said quarter one was the busy time?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Uh I think I've heard that every quarter. It's okay. So that's the deal. I've never really figured out what quarter is truly busy or slow. Because I think everybody has a different opinion on that. So I'm not sure. I haven't figured it out yet. That is funny.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

It's possibly whatever serves their purpose for the sentence they're trying to say. That's very true. Like, yeah. So could you briefly, or not briefly, actually, but tell us who you are outside of that. Outside of work? She says like there's nothing outside of work.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Um, okay, well, like who would you tell, like if you met someone at the ball game, who would you say you are? Okay, well, I'm a wife and a mom, um, most importantly. Um, so I have four kids, um, all different ages. I have a 17-year-old, a 13-year-old, a 10-year-old, and an eight-year-old. Um, and then my husband that I've just celebrated our 16th anniversary together. Um, and honestly, all of my career or work choices have always been about creating a life where I can be present for my family. Um so I've always like found remote jobs or just something to work around my my family's lifestyle. Um, so having my own company is sort of perfect with that. Um, but outside of work and my family, I'm not sure if there's anything more.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

We have zero hobbies.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I don't really have anything. I don't even have time, honestly, for hobbies right now, but it's something that I would like to work on. I do like to travel. I travel a lot with my family. Um, we're actually hoping to take our daughter to Japan next week. Um and yeah, so we like to travel as a family.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Um, but well, if no one has told you, Ashley, that's enough. Like you don't have to have more hobbies than that. You have a beautiful family that you make top priority. You have a great marriage, and traveling to Japan, check, check, check.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I think you're good.

unknown 6:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yes, I'm very excited. Although it's supposed to be ridiculously hot out there, so we'll see. Oh, I never think about it being hot there. Yeah, July and August is the worst time I've read to go out there. It's oh shoot the weather, and it's like 93, 94 with a 60 or 70 percent humidity. So we'll see how that goes. But but we're excited. So yeah, yeah. Um, I hope it's fine. I hope it's beautiful. You're just taking one daughter? Yes. Our goal, um, because she's my 17-year-old, so she'll graduate next year. Our goal, um, my husband and myself, is to take each child on a special trip before they graduate. Um one-on-one time with them, um, and for them to choose where they want to go. And she chose Japan. So um oh my gosh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

My cousin does that. Shout out to Caleb. I think my I think charity does that too, my sister. That is so cool. I love that idea. Thank you. Everyone should everyone should do that. Okay, let's so I have not, I'm using this episode, I'm using you, to finally tell the people what I do for a living because I never talk about it. Um, that we're in the same industry, so it's a good time to talk about it. I um I'm a project manager in market research. Ashley is also in my market research. We met because of market research. So let's tell the you kind of did. You told everyone what market research is. Um companies want to know what the market or consumers think about, what drives their decisions, how they feel about their buying needs, et cetera, et cetera. And so they hire market research consultancies to figure that out. I am largely on the the pharmaceutical side. So it's often um pharmaceutical companies preparing to launch a new product um or something like that. And so they want us to interview doctors and patients um who treat that condition or who have that condition and figure out yeah, how they feel about things, what uh kinds of language they use to talk about the condition, and then um they try to use that to help get their awesome um disease uh solving solutions, dil disease solutions into the market so people know about them. So when you see those commercials, like if you have this disease, here's a drug you should ask your doctor about. Um, but my market research might have led to that. It happens to me all the time. I think obviously my computer is listening to me because I see commercials for the companies I work with all the time. Um, you're mostly, you would say, would you say mostly consumer, mostly B2B?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Oh, that's a good question. I would say maybe 60, 40, like 60, 40 B2B. We do sometimes do healthcare, like more like physicians, um, but not as frequently. Um, but we also do like we'll find engineers or electricians. Um, and then we also do find like everyday consumers, like people that we do a lot of like automotive studies. So like people that own certain types of vehicles, or we can do something like a beverage study, like you drink certain types of juices, so a variety of different topics or projects that we cover.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

So I I'm gonna use this moment later. What we're definitely gonna link to you to if people want to, if people would be interested in being in studies, there's a place they could sign up with you, right? To be like in a okay. So we'll do that. But I I'm gonna use this moment to explain to the world, like most many people, when I got a job in market research, one of my sisters was like, I didn't even know that was a thing. And I said, same. Neither did I. But that so what you end up having is people who have no idea what market research is, and so they've never done it. They don't, and then you have people, um, as we were chatting before I hit record who try to scam the system and they know market research exists. Market research will pay you for your opinions, people. Um, these these companies will pay, will pay you to talk to to talk to a market researcher. And so when people learn that, they tend to they can try to make it a side hustle. Like, I'm just gonna sign up for all these studies and I'll just say what they want me to say so that I can get in the study. We do not want that. No, we do not want that. What you should think of market research, you the consumer, is just this cool thing that maybe you could do once or twice um to to share your opinion on something you're knowledgeable about. If it's a consumer study, like Cheerios, you know, like a a product, um, then you are just gonna be talking about your shopping experiences and how you buy. But there's also studies, especially when we say B2B, I mean business to business, right? Is that what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah. But usually like experts or professionals in that industry.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

So if you're if you're in a like a people who listen to this podcast, like are if you're in a job where you I'm a this, I'm a this is what I do. There might be a market research study out there that needs your expertise. So if you sign up for Ashley's newsletter or whatever, what you're gonna get is here's a study that's going on. We need this, we need that. And so don't think of it as something you can do often and all the time and make a ton of money at, but it can be really fun to talk about your job once or twice and then you get, you know, 100 bucks, 50 bucks, 200 bucks, something like that to just talk to someone like 30 minutes an hour or something like that. Um, so that's what we want is people who maybe don't know what it is, but they're willing.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah. And honestly, sometimes um, like not all the time, but I'm actually working on a project right now where one of the researchers um did this really large project um at the end of the year, and they're doing a phase two for the same client. And so they actually invited people back that they interviewed last January. Um, and they were just automatically qualified. They knew that they they had a 90-minute session with them and they wanted to invite them back for another 90-minute session. Um, so that's definitely possible too. Um, another thing, too, um, if you do sign up for our panel, I really try my best to only reach out to you with relevant studies. Um the there's our survey to join our panel only takes about two minutes to complete. Um, but that information we use to only send relevant studies. Like we're not gonna take over your email and send you every study that comes in because it's a waste of time for you to do the surveys if they don't apply to you. Um, so we really try to find relevant studies that we feel like you have a good chance of being a good fit for. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

I I've I've only worked in market research since 2020, but I've been that is enough to to know that there's a lot of crap out there. And there's companies where you are, you're gonna get just spammed and you're not gonna have any idea what a study really is about, or and you'll get it all and you'll you'll be, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And so I highly recommend Ashley's company because she takes such care with things, which is what I want to talk about next, because I just want to talk about how I met you and how we became work besties and why I say I love you when we hang up because I can't help it, because I love you so much. I told her once, I said, You know, when we hang up, I want I almost say I love you. She's like, That's fine, you can. Because I do. Um okay, so I was looking in 2020 when uh the pandemic hit and we all we all were working from home for a little while. I realized I loved it. I had done it when my kids were young, but now I didn't have kids at home, and it was even better. It was just I loved being home in my own space and um and I was needing a job change anyway. And so I looked specifically for remote work, and that's how I ended up. I founded on Flex Jobs, by the way. Flex Jobs is not a bad little organization to find remote work, if anyone is interested. Um, and I just stumbled into this job. I could see that probably I was qualified for, but I didn't really know what it was, you know? And it was market research and it was a recruitment company. So market research. Um, there's companies that run the studies and do the moderating and create the reports for the company. And then there's companies that recruit the people and they tend to work for each other. And so I worked for a company that recruited, did the recruiting, and Ashley was there already. Ashley really kind of you practically grew up with that company, right? Like it started and you were pretty much there from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

I I think I started like a few years after, but I think I started like before they really took off with their growth. Because I remember, for instance, you weren't an employee at first. Yeah, so I was a contractor. Um, and then yeah, when you came, like everyone was brought on as an employee instead of a contractor. So I was still, I would say, like, I think they were around maybe a couple of years before I started, but they were still very small. Um, and then I joined, and then I think like within the six months, like they really grew and made everyone into employees instead of contractors.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

So when I was interviewed for for the job, um I was told, okay, so what you do is you're a project manager, you'll get this study, you'll need whatever, 18 people who come who uh who qualify, and you figure that out based on the application that people take. And you find these 18 people, and lots of times there's little segments like we want 18 people who said yes on question eight, and we want, you know, 10 people who said no on question eight, something like that kind of stuff. And the people taking the application do not know those little specifics, and so they don't know if they're gonna make it or not. And so you gotta fill these little quotas, and so she's telling me this, and she said, and I said, So what will be the pain points of the job? Is it, for instance, when you don't have those little boxes filled and it's time for the study? She said, Exactly. And I said, So do we help each other? I mean, do I have resources in place to help get that done? She said, Exactly. We help each other. We have a daily, was it daily or was it weekly, the PM meeting back then? I think it was daily. I think it was daily. And so we all could talk about our studies and what we might have needed, or and you can help each other out. That's what I was told. And when I started, I Ashley was the most, the most help, the one who proved that point. She immediately was there, like calling or chatting me. What can how can I help you? Do you have any questions? I'd say, yeah, what the heck do I do about this? And I don't understand this. And she would walk me through it and help me so much. I've never really started work anywhere where someone was that helpful. Thank you. You were so you just were there for everyone. Everyone in that company, I think, would agree that um you were a huge help. So you helped me learn the job and its weird quirks and how to handle it and how to keep from losing my mind.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, I it's sort of crazy because honestly, like I remember when you started and you had a question and we chatted about it, but it was like one minute, it's like we just like became like work BFFs like overnight. Like I don't even remember where it came from, but then we just talked all the time and continued our friendship. Um that's exactly how I remember it. I honestly don't remember exactly like when started. Yeah, it just sort of happened.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

I absolutely that's it, my exact memory as well. You were a work colleague who could walk me through work things and then flip. It was like, I want to talk to you about everything. And we think the same about so much. I think part of it had to have been, I don't know, it was before that though. I was gonna say we both became directors in that company of our own division. Ashley became the director of the business division, and I became director of the medical division. And that definitely put us in this new level of responsibility and stress and whatever. So I'm sure we had a lot to talk about then, but it was really before that that it really Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

It was. And that was like I I think that was like over four years ago, which is insane too, because it feels like yesterday that we worked with each other, to be honest with you. So I know it doesn't feel like it's been that long that we haven't worked with each other.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

And it was the thing about that is everything I read about work, everything I read about happiness in general, is that friends, relationships, long-lasting, strong relationships are the pretty much the key to happiness. And at work, that's true too. And it hasn't been true for me very much. Like work tends to be work, and it's not like I don't have buddies um and people I like and people that I can relate to, but it's not the same. It's like you it was a deep friendship, even though it was built out of work, and I've never even seen your face. I know, and we still need to get together. We just we've got to get together. We live like probably six hours away.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I gotta get my butt in the car and drive north. And we have not done that. And also, like I said, I feel like it was yesterday that we were talking about it, but it's been like five years or something that we had that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

No, this is a good time for me to say I have a new grandchild. I have two now. They are both south of me. So to drive north will take some self-sacrifice, but I'm going to do it. I want to come see you. That should be we gotta meet and meet in person and talk about all the things um in person. Um okay, when we were in that company, we had oh man, how do I want to say this? We had lots of conversations about how we would do it if we were running the show. Yep. And we would talk about starting our own thing. We were kind of joking, but hey, if we if we did this, how would we do it? And when would we say no to something and stuff like that? Yeah, we did joke about that a lot, actually. We can we tell how we used to joke, like if things would be stressful or hard, we would be like, if it doesn't get better by if it doesn't get better by Memorial Day, I gotta quit. And then Memorial Day would come and go and we'd be like, okay, if it doesn't get better on the 4th of July.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yes, that is very true. It had it, it had this industry in general has its ups and downs with their with the the waves of the workload. Um and it can be a lot, especially in the beginning when you're when you're just starting in the in the industry, it's a lot. Um because it's not it's not a typical at least that I know of. It's not. It does it's it's a zone beast for sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

And that to to the yeah, to in defense of where where we worked or any company in the and you would know better than anyone now that you're doing it yourself, but it's hard to manage the workload because you can think to yourself, you know, I want everyone to only be, you know, at capacity where they they can handle every project they but you don't really know how hard and fast the work may come in. And so there's dead times and the if you're if you're a boss of several employees and there's not enough work for everyone, you're paying people to sit around. But then then so you take what you can and then boom everyone is a little bit over capacity. That's kind of how it felt.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

I think so for sure. And I I can understand that now having my own company I'm definitely more cautious with bringing people on because I don't want to be in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Um and I'm also like I also never want to overpromise clients. Um so I am very transparent with first of all before I take on any project I always do my research about each project. I don't just say yes to everything that's handed over. Um I I do research about it and to see like you know if it's if it's even feasible like I'm not gonna take on something that I just don't think I can do. Um and I'm very transparent about that. And also if I'm at capacity or over capacity I will also tell clients that too. Unfortunately I do have to turn down projects sometimes um because there's just only so much I can take on at one point um or at one time I do have some clients though which are my more like um consistent or consistent clients and I have tried to turn down a project here or there and sometimes they won't let you they don't let me like it's I'm not sure how it happens but I literally will say I don't think I can take this on or I'm not sure if I can get these people that you need but they somehow have more trust in me than I have in myself and they're like okay you know we'll we'll take it and I'm like oh okay I don't know how this just happened um have you ever won have you ever said no all the way to the end like they say please and you say no and they say please please and you say and you really do say no. Uh yeah not not usually take it up the second or third but I have had it a handful of times now where like I'm like I really can't take it on and and then they come back and they're like you know what if we do this can you maybe take it on then um and I It's because you're so awesome. Thank you. Do you know they love working with you. They know how hard you will try yes I well yeah I I think they appreciate my transparency with everything. I do usually take it on because um like those clients like they're not just clients they're partners and we have this relationship and so um you know I want I want them to be successful their success makes my success right so I want them to do well as as well. So I usually do work with them but I also but I am very like transparent with what I can and can't do because like I said I never want to overpromise and then under deliver. But yeah there somehow I my husband will make fun of me because he'll be like I thought you were turning that down I thought I was too but somehow I'm working on it tonight.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

So it's like the devil wears Prada when she says she's gonna quit and then the boyfriend comes home and she's still making the solar system for her boss as kids. Yes exactly so just I hate when people talk I hate I hate when things are too vague in the work world like job descriptions are so vague. It's like you're going to be in charge of structures and platforming and blah blah and no one knows what it means. So can we tell can you could you describe a study that you might have turned down because it was so unique or tricky or kind you can mask it so it's not the exact but what just to to tell my audience this is the kind of thing I might get asked to look for that I might say no to because it's a little too would you be willing?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah um I'm actually working on a current project right now that you said no to yeah that I that I sort of said no to um because of my capacity but also because of my upcoming travel plans. I was honest about that and um I didn't want to um take I it's really hard for me to step away from work. And so I was really trying to be mindful of my workload with this special trip coming up with my daughter and my husband. So um but the client was fantastic about it. They were very understanding and still wanted to move forward but I but respected my um my my time off basically um so this one is a challenging one because we're looking we're taking people so this is the same project where we're actually inviting people back from the past study. So half the study we're inviting past participants um back to which it's actually I can't give much detail about what the study is about but it is a um a very uh popular topic I guess right now or industry um and honestly I thought it was so cool that these participants were invited back because I personally thought like the pay was amazing. It's a 10-minute virtual interview and it pays $500. 90 minutes? $500? Yeah and you yes you would think that so many people would be willing to sign up and do this study but somehow it's still challenging with certain people in this industry. But I thought that was really exciting. So for the people that already did the study they were more than happy to come back and do it because they know that we are legit and that you know that's actually one of the hardest things with um sort of getting off on another note. But one of the hardest things with this industry is finding new people to do the studies that aren't familiar that aren't familiar about like this industry or that these opportunities exist. They tend to be very skeptical and I totally understand especially because there's just so many scams out there. So it's really challenging to sometimes find new people to do these studies because they are very hesitant about it. Yeah. But I will say one of my favorite things actually about my job is finding these people that haven't actually been in these studies before um persuading them or convincing them that it is a legit thing and that you know they're going to share their expertise or their opinions or insight. And then them participating and them usually coming back and telling me like how great of an experience it was and asking how they can be part of another study. That's actually my favorite part with this um with this industry. It's so rewarding to connect people with these opportunities that they didn't know existed. And then usually also like the companies or the clients just have such great interview sessions with these people too.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

So anyways that's a little um I love that I have a fun story like that that when since I started during COVID um I I was looking through my spreadsheet you know trying to find people who qualified for this consumer study of some sort and one of the people her her profession was actor and I'm such an easily starstruck person by that profession and she qualified for the study and so I put her in and asked her if she wanted to be in it. She did and she was so grateful and she's like I'm so thrilled this exists this option because we actors are like don't have work right now and so she sent me more of her friends who were actors and um she sent me one she said you'll actually recognize him from things because she felt like she was kind of new to it and might not be in thing but it was so fun.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

It was so fun having my little actor friends and it is it's exciting because there's like like what you mentioned earlier there are people that are very familiar with these opportunities and it's funny that going from one company to another to starting my own company that you recognize some of these names which is just insane like that is insane that they are just in so many different panels out there. Remember when we had spreadsheets of aliases yes yeah it was like this person is also this person who is this person who is this person. Yeah or like five different email addresses or yes it's it's insane um so there's definitely those that are you know do this as a side hustle but there's a lot of people out there that just don't even know that this is um that this this does exist and those are the ones excited honestly I before I started working at the company that we met at my first experience with market research was I was in college um and somehow I came across it I don't know how but it was for a hair a hair removal study for women um and I went to this place and they gave each of us a product to try and to do like a questionnaire about after and then come back for a focus group. And the product that they gave me was an epilator and back then those were like a hundred dollar products um keep it so I got to try this product keep it and get paid for it and I was in college and I was like this is the most amazing ever. Like did they find you in person like they just waylaid you on the sidewalk. I don't even remember why I have yeah I don't remember how I came across it because I didn't even know that these things existed and I honestly don't remember how I came across it but I just remember going to um this building I think it was you know a larger company that was doing it um and getting handed this product and they're like oh you get to keep it and I was like just amazed by that alone. And then I got paid for it and I was like this is the most amazing thing ever. Um so then when I when I came across the job description for the job that we met at I was so excited to get into this industry because I was like I have experience with this and this is a really cool thing. That's cool. See I was like I don't even know what this is but I think that I only did it once but I thought it was just so cool um and just such a a fun where did you find the job? I think I came oh I came across it from this site called Hire My Mom. Oh yeah Hire My Mom that's another good one for people who want to work remote that was the first time well actually I got a couple jobs off of there um but that was it was all like sort of in the same two or three month timeframe. And I thought that was also one of the coolest like websites ever or sites jobs because they were like you very unique job opportunities or you know it could be long term or it could be temporary. Like one of the things that I did on there was there is this woman that sold items on Amazon and she needed someone to write thank you cards and share product samples and so like I literally as like a side job would send you know thank you cards to people and share writing thank you cards would be my dream job. And I I I'd be so good at that I thought that was really cool. It was just such like it was not a job you would ever think of but also I was raised to write thank you cards by my my mom. So I was like I just totally respected what this woman was trying to do. And so I did that just as a part-time thing too. But um it was a really cool site because they had really different jobs out there that I didn't even know existed. And being a mom of four and just having a baby that last year um I just thought it was just so exciting to see like what type of opportunities were out there that allowed you know you to be at home and that flexibility. And so yeah that's where I came across the the Okay that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I'm gonna link to both of those flex jobs and hire my mom. Yeah. I kind of loved the story of our um what our VP at the company that we were at because she started just like you had just had a baby I think or was going to have a baby so wanted to work from home and found this work from home job sort of an assistant type role and then by the time I got there she was a freaking VP. So you never know what can come of these is what I'm trying to say. These little opportunities out there. Hire my mom does tend to be not it it doesn't tend to be full time salary with benefits kind of jobs. It's a lot of part-time or contract or temporary that kind of thing but it is if you just want to bring in some money to your household but you want to stay home with your kids definitely check it out. It does cost money to get to have all the benefits of it but um yeah it's worth it it's worth it if you can find something like that. Yeah. Um my daughter-in-law will kill me if I've never told her about hire my mom actually but she's a she has a great remote job.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

So yeah I haven't been on the site in years now but I thought it was a very very cool uh website that they had and opportunities that they had out there. They have a lot of like small businesses too that are just starting so it could be something too where you know you might fall into a place where you grow with the company too and you could also go from that assistant or smaller role to you know a larger role with the company.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah that was another thing I was looking for when I found um the first market research job I got was a small company that maybe I could grow with. Yeah I liked that idea. So what could you tell people like three really practical things you do almost every day. Like this is literally what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

What I do every day for work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah we know you don't have hobbies do what I don't know I don't have hobbies.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Okay so well while I'm finding participants for this for these studies um that I'm looking to fill um I'm always doing detective work. Because good um part of my work is a detective because unfortunately we do get people that say that they are something that they're not or they use products or services that they don't. And so we always do our due diligence to to make sure that we're finding the right people not only like articulate but just honest, genuine people. Another thing too it's it's constant relationship building um because it's not just with my clients, it's with participants too. I am constantly communicating and just building that trust with with people whether it's a new client or a new you know potential participant that is curious. You know, maybe I I reached out to them and they give me a call to to ask if I'm a legit company and a legit person and sort of just building that trust and relationship. And then constant like just project management and customer service all around I guess. Yeah I would say those are like just very consistent things that I do at work all the time. Are you on the phone with people every day? Yes almost every day I'm on the phone. I so I have my own company but I do have contractors too that help me with those calls um and just with work in general. So that helps tremendously I am I do um talk to quite a few people and then emails my emails are out of control again my it you need to hire me for that I'm very good at inbox zero. Yeah that's another like just full time job trying to keep that inbox at zero.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Well they say it's futile because as soon as you reply to someone and empty your inbox, they reply again. So you're basically feeding your own monster. That's true. You can never win but I love it. I'm a big inbox zero person. Yeah I'm awful at that I have actually I'm like an inbox 12 person.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

I'm gonna have some emails in there. Well it's way better than mine is too embarrassing to share with you.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

6,000, 10,000?

SPEAKER_00 38:45

It's way too many um but yeah those I would say that is sort of like my everyday stuff that I do.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

I feel like we've done really well at not talking too jargony but market research is what the most jargony company I've ever worked in. The acronyms are out of this world. There's so many and I've been in it since 2020 and still acronyms will be thrown at me that I don't know. And I was wondering okay the thing you're talking about where you you kind of have to go prove that the person really is what they say. When I was doing that it seems like we call called it POE maybe proof of employment yeah I think that does sound familiar. Okay. Well I work with a company now that is con was was constantly telling me we're trying to get their COD we're trying to get their COD and I was like what are what is that certificate of deposit? Like what? And I finally just asked because I love to do that ask questions that people think you know like everyone just says these things and sometimes they don't even know what it means. Anyway it was um confirmation of diagnosis. So it was patients uh with a rare disease and they actually would try to get confirmation of that diagnosis somehow. So okay yeah jargon everywhere so do you have do you have acronyms in your company?

SPEAKER_00 40:07

That's a good question. I don't think so actually you're too real you're so authentic.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yeah I don't think I do I think it's uh pretty much say say what it is what you mean say what you mean yeah I oh I love when there's an acronym everyone's throwing around and when I ask what it means no one knows. That's like my favorite thing. Like you guys why do we say it if we don't even know what it means because what it means matters for what anyway I think it's hilarious the way people talk in business and don't even know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

But um okay what can you can you name at least one thing about your work that matters that's meaningful one thing that's meaningful about my work um well I know that we've had this conversation before about what have you had to tell me this well just like this industry and like the types of you know these larger companies looking to improve their services or their products whether it's something that's really needed or just nice to have I guess um and so some of the topics of research that we recruit full for I do find very meaningful and I think it's um I just find it really meaningful where others obviously are more just for companies trying to increase their revenue and stuff. Um but I will say like I still going back to like just the people sharing their expertise or their insight um I still I find that very meaningful still because I love the fact that people just get to that the regular person gets to voice their insight and has that opportunity to share you know to share in a safe safe space where it's welcomed um you know what could be improved or what they don't like or what they like about whether it's whether it's their something with their job, maybe not necessarily like their actual job, but something you know a um service or a product they use within their job or just as an everyday consumer. I think it's just really meaningful and really neat that people are invited to these opportunity that for this opportunity to share their insight um because most people don't get that opportunity and most people only provide feedback usually if it's negative. Like when you go to reviews it's usually negative reviews. Not many people go out of their way to write positive things. So true. And so I think it's just really neat with this industry how you know you find people that have that opportunity opportunity to to share their opinions basically I love about you that you see that side of it.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I can get kind of cynical about the industry and I have I'm sure joked with you that it's just really rich companies trying to get richer by selling more of their stuff. And but that's true what you're saying. It is honestly kind of um what am I trying to say? It's it you are theoretically thinking of the consumer when you ask for the consumer's opinion. You are you are trying to understand um how better to help them or um I there was a time when I was kind of what would be an industry that just fits me and I was kind of looking into publishing because I love books so much and I talked to someone in the industry and I said you know hey if you if there's anything out there if you could find me a job in publishing and what she's and she knew what I was Doing in market research, and she said, The truth is publishing needs more market research. And it's funny because I had I interviewed a guy in publishing a couple episodes ago, and he talked about how out of touch the publishing company can be with the average Joe. Um, just a little like they kind of can get on their high horse about what's important and what should be published. And then this book will come out of nowhere that was self-published that readers soak up. It's kind of like, well, you missed it, publishing company. Like apparently that's what they wanted, you know? And it's so yeah, I don't think there's a lot of market research in that particular industry. Um, and so it is, you're right, it's meaningful that to get to give your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

I feel like companies like companies are always still going to make their products or services because that that's what their company is, right? So for them to invest into you know, the everyday consumers opinions or insight. Um, I I appreciate that about them. And like I said, I just think it's such a great opportunity for people out there for the average Joe Joe Smith, whoever, uh, to be able to share that because you don't usually get that opportunity unless you're an angry customer that's going to write an angry review, probably. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

So yeah, it's so funny because I went through I went through McDonald's recently, and there's so much they call me by name. But it's also because I use the app which tells them my name. But anyway, um, there's nothing so magical, really, to me, as pulling up to a drive-thru and they're like, Hi, Serenity, here's your burrito, your breakfast burrito. But um, anyway, she they always ask if I want my receipt. Um, I didn't, you know, I pay through the app, so I really have a receipt there and stuff. And I usually say no. And once I'm just started chit-chatting with the person because the line was long, whatever. She said, they make us ask. They really want us to get it into people's hands because it's got that survey on it. But they don't understand. The only people who fill out restaurant surveys are mad. So it's like just what you said. It's like the only people who do it are typically negative. So why are you pushing it so much?

SPEAKER_00 46:11

I unfortunately I can be like that, but I'm trying to be more mindful. And when I have such a positive experience with someone, I actually do go out of my way now to write a positive review because um, because that is that is not that's just so rare. Like people don't do that anymore. But also, like for people to just really do their job well or just really make you feel appreciated as a person is also harder to come by, I feel like. And so I do want to acknowledge that when that does happen. So I am trying to be more mindful of that. I love that story so much, but I do think people are much more willing to go and write out of anger than out of, you know, in my day happiness type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

I love stories like that about how you can realize from your work this thing to do different in your life. I do that with work can be um, you know, certain jobs you're getting questions all day and people being kind of in a hurry. And I always think to myself when I go to a workplace or I call customer service or something, like this person, I could I can make a difference on whether this person has a sucky day. Like it's we we're the reason. Like we're all the reason each other has bad days all the time. And so if I can be a customer that is not making their day worse, wouldn't that be great? And what if everyone thought that way? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

And it always takes like a moment out of your your life. And honestly, I sort of appreciate it more because since starting my own company, like I have reviews and stuff about my company. And those people that take their time out of their day to write a positive review, especially because, like I said, like part of the challenge with this industry is trying to, you know, convince people that aren't familiar with this industry to to take this chance with these studies. Um, and so, you know, those reviews that we receive like mean the world to us. And so, um, so I want to sort of do the same thing for other people. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

I I've heard some stories about people from the listening to this podcast. It makes my like heart explode that people are even listening. But then when they'll tell me I did this or that or I thought this or that because of what you was on your podcast, I'm hoping people will go write an awesome review on something after they hear this. Like let's just in like flood good companies with good reviews after this episode. Everybody go write one. It'd be so cool. Um okay, so I this is where I want to go next if you're willing to, and just talk about it as much as you're willing or as vague as you want. And also remember that I can cut anything because you hadn't said. But I like, I love a quitting story just because I think it's I personally think it's good for us all to know um how to know when we should quit something and how to quit something well, etc. And you have a quitting story from the company that we shared together. Yes. And um what I what are you willing to tell us about that? How did you how did the idea evolve that you might need to go or want to go do something else?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah, so I'm a very honest person, which can be a good thing and a bad thing. Because it's hard for me to not for me, it's all good. It's hard for me to not be very like just it's hard for me not to be honest. Okay, so um we met at the same company and I was one of the first um one of the first people there. Not not quite like, but you know, the one of the beginning people, I guess. For sure. Um, and I um I worked really hard at that company. What I realized about myself, honestly, these last, I don't know, eight or ten years is that um I always just put in my all into everything that I do with work, um, whether it's my company or somebody else's company. Um, so I was, I felt like I worked really hard at that company. I was really appreciated, or I really appreciated the opportunity, um, especially being, you know, not really not having much work history, but some here and there. Um just to go back, I graduated with a marketing degree, but I found I was found out I was pregnant also my senior year of college. So I had my daughter, my husband was in the military, so we moved and I never really had the opportunity to use or to to work basically. Um, so I took, you know, I had that time off in between college and and working with raising my children. So I was always really appreciative of, you know, anyone taking the chance of hiring me because I didn't have much experience. But I did always feel confident that if someone just took the chance to hire me, that they, you know, wouldn't regret it because I put everything into my work. Um is that not the truth?

SPEAKER_01 51:23

I want my resume to say, try me, I can do it. That's what I want my whole resume to say.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yes, exactly. Try me, I can do it. I I think you can definitely teach, you know, for the most part, skills and well, you know, what's out there, but um you just have to have that drive or that I don't know. Anyways, so um, so I started there and um and they grew really fast, like we spoke about. And I I loved it. I it was exciting. Um, it was it could be challenging at times because the workload could get pretty heavy. Um, I made some really great, you know, friendships there. Um, and and I loved working there. It was it was great overall. Um, but I to be honest with you, I just felt like I was never valued as much as others. Um, we did form friendships and it came to my attention many times that other people were that were coming in newer were getting paid more. Um, and that was really hard for me to accept because I felt like I, you know, worked really hard and did the best that I could with everything. And um, I just felt undervalued a lot with the amount of work that I put into the to into the job. Um, so long story short, um one of the um clients that we recruited for was actually starting a new opening up a new position at their company. Um, and they asked me if I wanted to interview for it um because of their experience working with me. Um, and so I took the chance and I did the interview and they offered me the a position there. Um, it was really tough, actually. I am not good with change. I am all about comfort and just uh uh I'm not a risk taker. So it was a really tough decision for me. Um also like I loved the people that I worked with, um, like my you know, immediate group of people that I worked with. Um and so it was really hard um to to take that leap and take that chance and leave. Um, but I ultimately um it was it was a new opportunity. Um I felt very valued from that company from the moment I interviewed with them. Um I was given an offer and for the first time I actually negotiated. You negotiated and I did research on it. And like for anyone listening, like women do not negotiate usually. Um, it's usually men. Um, for whatever reason, women do not feel comfortable doing that, or they probably just feel appreciated, like I did, just taking on the for the somebody just hire them, like that's good enough. Um, but I really like I did research and I mentally prepared myself and tried to build that company. I can't remember that so well. And I negotiated it and they actually and they accepted it. And I felt and I was so proud of myself. Like it was the I was so proud of you too. That was so proud. And I felt and it was such a great feeling starting with that company too, because I felt so valued before I even started because I was like, wow, they are willing to pay me more because they really want me here. You know what I mean? Like you go into that job feeling so good about yourself and you want to do, you want to do your best. Like I've always done my best, but it's like you even wanted you want to do just as I don't even know if there's beyond, you know, as well as I was doing before, but I definitely did not want to lose that opportunity. Like I wanted to show my appreciation for them and just show how much I wanted to be there. Um, so that was really exciting for me. Um, and that's basically I guess my quitting story.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Um it's it was tough, like I said, because um it was I can vouch for this. You you're not lying when you say you did like that job. There was a lot that you liked about it.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

Yeah, I I I had a lot of conversations with you about it, and it was it was hard. And and it's um, it's always hard to like tell any company that you're leaving. Like you just sort of feel like this guilt, and um, even if you really shouldn't feel guilty, yeah, you just have this guilt for some reason. Um, but I will say like I felt very appreciated and valued at this new company from the moment that they thought of me for the role to, you know, willing to hear my, you know, negotiation with the offer and then, you know, actually accepting it. And it was a very um neat experience in my life. And it's honestly, it was such a great experience because it made me um become who I am now because I will never go back to the way that I was ever. So I will never What do you mean? Uh never I will never go back to um working for someone else as hard as I did, um, and sacrificing as much time that I did with my family um and for a job. Like for a job that's not even your company. You know what I mean? Like it's just um I just I always think people who are salaried, which I don't I don't think you were were you? No, and I sort of negotiated that too because I for good reason. Yeah, uh-huh. I I didn't I yeah, I the salary thing is I that's a tough thing, I feel like in our country because I do too. I feel like so many people can get taken advan taken advantage of salary. Like I the salary is really nice because you just know that you're gonna get that constant, consistent paycheck. But companies that think that because your salary that you're gonna work 50 hours a week, I like I I just it's just not acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

I agree. I think people who are I think people who are salaried should if and they're working overtime a lot. Like for one thing, clock it for real to see if you really are, because sometimes we don't manage our time that well, and so we think we're working a lot more than we are. But if you clock it and you figure out, yeah, I really am working well over 40 hours, then divide that by your salary, you know, or vice versa. I don't think I'm saying the math right so that you can figure out how you're making how much you're making per hour because it's not going to be worth it.

unknown 58:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

And you're not, yeah. So I just think people just do it because they're good, they're good employees, they're good workers. They um, you know, I talked to someone once who said, you know, I have a I was hired to do a job, and so I have to get that job done, period, no matter how many hours it takes me. And I said, But you must have some boundaries because that's if the job is taking you far more than 40 hours every single week, I'm not sure your job is allocated correctly or something is not right to me.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

But um Yeah, and honestly, that is when I said like I would never go back to the way that I was, like that is something I if I ever worked for a company now, um, and I was salary, I I would put my foot down if I needed to, if I was consistently working well over 40 hours a week every week. Um, because I just don't think it's okay. And also though, I I and I will say like my last job that I did work at, like, um, they were not like like we did not work, you know, crazy hours or anything. So not all companies are like that. Yeah, agree. There are companies that respect, you know, you working, having a work-life balance. Um, but there are definitely companies out there too that take advantage of it. And I don't, I don't know if they just don't I think some don't even recognize it maybe, and then there's others that just don't really care, or I'm not really sure what the case is. Um I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

I do think it's really cool that what you're saying is how you will change or how you that when I had an episode with um Carrie Gaines that I would recommend everyone listen to, it's so good. She talked about this that um, you know, if you're working, you know, reading emails in the evening, et cetera, et cetera, is it really that you're being asked to, or are you possibly over overproducing based on your assumptions that maybe aren't true? And I would say like the company I work I'm not um a W-2 employee. I'm contract, I really kind of love that for many reasons, but um the company I work with right now, I do I feel is very respectful typically of um normal working hours and holidays and things like that, but I still see people wildly overworking um because it's kind of about the person in some ways.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

And sometimes it it is, and I think it's like I think it could be that you're like that fear of you losing your job or that you know, people might not think that you appreciate it, or whatever the case, too, um may be something that contributes to that. Um but I feel like so um, like I said, I'm a very transparent transparent person. So after I left the company, I was actually let go um from my other company. I was laid off. Um and so one not because of your performance, not because of my performance, no. Um actually my the company that laid me off is now my biggest client. And so we have an amazing partnership and it worked out for everyone in such a positive way. Um, so it was definitely not my performance. They were having their own, you know, um financial or issues with with the economy and stuff like that, and and had a slow time. Um, but it all worked out well. But my point is is that um I realize that everyone is replaceable, unfortunately. Like, and um it doesn't matter like how much you really put into the company um or how long you've been there. Like it's the company is gonna have to do what's best for the company. Um, and so you know, everyone is replaceable, unfortunately. So you just have to do what is best for you. Like you have to voice what when you're not feeling valued, or you have to take the step, you have to take the, you have to leave if you, you know, are being treated fairly or whatever. Um, and do you just have to do what's best for you because it's not um the work industry is doesn't seem to be like what it used to be like. And I haven't lived this, but just you know, stories from grandparents or just elderly people like that you could work at a company for 30 years and retire. That doesn't seem to be the case as much nowadays. Um, so you have to just do what's best for you, and also like everyone has their own idea of what work-life balance is. Not everyone, you know, uh respects that or understands that. And it may be because they have different priorities, you know, some people have large families, some people have no kids, whatever the case may be, everyone has different thoughts with that. Um, but you have to be able to make it clearer of what your work life balance is, I guess. Absolutely. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

Yeah. So that so that is that answers the question, how you started your own thing is the company had to make some financial decisions. Did they say to you, hey, but we would contract, or did you first come up with the idea to have your company and then you reached out to them?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Yeah. So unfortunately, so my role at that company was more of a nice to have role. So I was like a recruiting coordinator. So what I did was I would actually like sort of manage the recruiting vendors to make sure that they were getting the people that we needed, you know, meeting those quotas, um, making sure that just making sure that the recruitment was successful with every project. And sometimes I would actually have to recruit myself if the recruiter wasn't able to to fill it. Um, but it was more of a nice to have. It wasn't really a needed uh or crucial um role there. So unfortunately, um I was let go. Um, but it was um it was in a very respectful way. Um, and I I left on a positive note. Um, ironically, like two weeks after I was let go, they actually reached out to me to ask if I wanted to contract um project because they got, you know, a new project came in, and then because of them laying off people, they didn't have the capacity. And so I was like, sure, I'll, you know, I'll help. And in the exact same type of role, you were recruiting a really role. I ended up contracting and actually making more as a contractor because you usually make more financially, but I didn't have the benefits. But honestly, that was okay with me because my husband has time, so we use his benefits anyways, like health insurance and stuff. Um, so it was actually it worked out well. Um, but in the meantime, I was trying to figure out what I should do because um we recently moved and so we moved into a larger home with our family, and so I sort of relied on my income now, and so I needed to to find something. Um, and my husband, uh even when I was working at that company, was always like, You should start your own company, you would be so great at it, you know, you should do it. And I was like, No way. And I was like, This is my dream job. I love it here. I'm never and I'm not a risk taker. I didn't want to take that chance. Um I didn't have a job, and so I felt like it was the perfect time to do it. Um, I had nothing to lose, right? So um, so I just Decided to start my own company. And also, uh, this is a little off topic, but I live in Minnesota. And so Minnesota has this program for unemployment where they actually will still support you with unemployment while starting your own company. Um, so usually when you're on when you're doing unemployment, you have to show that you're looking for a job. They have this program, I think it's called Climb or something, Climb program, where I love it. That you're, you know, working on your company, like that you're building a website and you're, you know, finding customers or clients that you still get that full um unemployment um income. Oh my gosh. Um I love it. Yeah. So it was a very supportive um program. And so I was like, I really have nothing to lose because I'm still getting, you know, unemployment while I'm able to focus on building my company. So that was a really neat situation. Um, and so my husband was really the one that encouraged me to just take the leap. Um, he believed in me a long time before I believed in myself. Um, and just having him that was having him in the corner, just being so confident, um, made a huge difference with me taking that leap. Um, and so all the summer, uh two years ago, actually, during that entire summer, I worked on um trying to figure out a name for my company and registering it and building a website and all that fun stuff. Um, and so it sort of consumed my summer. Um, but it kicked off pretty fast when I launched. Um, my old company found out that I just launched my company and uh they basically gave me a project like a week of or a week or two of launching. It was pretty quick. I I wasn't really prepared for it. Um, and then I had some other um clients come in too. And so it actually kicked off much faster than I expected. The beginning was very hard because it kicked off so fast, and also because I wasn't a hundred percent confident in myself. I was so worried that I was gonna take on projects that I couldn't fill that and I I was I had so much stress on my just I just was so stressed because I didn't want to let anyone down. Um, and so it was really hard um the first six months, just taking the chance of taking on projects, still trying to, you know, perfect things or or getting things right with just documentations and you know, just everything with it. Um, but yeah, so the first six months were pretty crazy. Um, and that's sort of how it took off.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

I love this story for so many reasons. First of all, when you said you're not a risk taker, it's we used to talk about that all the time. Neither of us is a risk taker, really. And I wrote this whole blog post basically inspired by you when um you did start your company. And the blog post was tongue-in-cheek. It was sarcastic, but it was, I'm starting a business and it's called Think Again. And we're gonna take, we will take your creative ideas and random ideas you get in the shower, and we'll measure it against like the price of eggs and fear and your realist family members and self-employment taxes, and we'll shut it down. Like that's what we're gonna do. Shut down your ideas. Um, because we we're like our risk analysis is 100% guaranteed to crush your dreams or your money back. That was my point. Unfortunately, some people took me seriously. They really thought I'd started a business, but I just like we're we were so good at it. We were so good at shutting down our own ideas, and yet you did it. And so the other thing I love is I just this is a theme in my life that I keep seeing in all advice that I read in these many happiness and work type books that I read is that you you change by doing, not by thinking. Like you cannot think your you couldn't think your way into knowing you were gonna totally nail nail it at that job. You had had to take the jobs, take the projects you were scared to take, and and do it. And you did it. And you got through those six months that were hard, and thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

You're still there, you're still running this awesome company. I know, I can't believe it's been two years. I can't either flown by. Um, but yeah, you're right. You really can't overthink it because you don't know what's gonna happen or what to expect um with it. And and it's weird because uh now, and even though it's been almost two years, like now I don't really have to think twice with taking on a project. Like I I really know like what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not capable or what maybe I wouldn't say what I'm not capable of, but maybe I'm just not as you know, maybe I haven't taken on that exact study or those specific types of people. Um, which like I said, I'm just very transparent with clients about. Um, but yeah, you I would never would have like expected when we met that I would be in this position now.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

I I I love it. What you've kind of talked about what you love about it and the things like that you will never do again. Is there anything you miss about working for someone else? No, I mean I'm hoping your answer is no.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Excellent, really? Yeah, I'm like thinking about it and I'm like, no, because I love um I love the uh the flexibility of my job, like being available for my children. Like my when they got out of school, they were all in sports uh summer camps, and I didn't have to ask permission to take them to and from to camp or me going on this vacation with my daughter, like I don't have to ask permission or have that weight on my shoulder, you know, if if my boss is gonna be okay with it. Um, I also work all hours of the day, which I need to actually probably not do as much.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

Um I've heard that's a problem with starting a company and doing work that you enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

But I like that flexibility though, too, because if I feel like I just need a break mentally or I just want to spend time with my family in midday, I can do that. So I don't think so. I honestly don't think I miss it at all. I I yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

Can you think of some questions that people should ask themselves if they are considering starting their own thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

I I can okay, I'm not sure if I can have specific questions, but I can see where um some people may prefer to not have their own company and stay at a typical job because like I said, I do work all hours sometimes. And for that, um, that might be challenging for some people. Like if you truly want to work like a nine to five job, I think that could be challenging having your own business, especially in the beginning. Um, maybe eventually I'll be able to have more of that lifestyle. Um, but in the beginning, like you can expect to work some crazy hours sometimes. Good point. So I guess that's something to think about if you're thinking about starting your own company. I guess it's really like what what do you need to prioritize? Um, like if you're, you know, someone that like I'm I am fortunate that I'm married to my husband and he has great health insurance, right? So I don't really have to worry about that. Um but some people may have that some people that may be a priority for them. So I guess it's really like what um what are your priorities with not only just income, but just benefits and just your I think balance benefits is such an important conversation in this country with work.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

It I think in some in many cases we work for benefits more than more than money. And I got lucky when I wanted to move remote. Uh so I the job I was in, um, I knew the exact like monetary value of the benefits of the health insurance and life insurance because of the type of job I had. That was just information I was privy to. It was like $19,000 a year that I was making in benefits. Okay. Now it in my head, and so I went, I flipped because at first, just knowing that I would, I kind of wanted to change jobs, but I would tell myself, but I don't just need to replace my salary. I need to replace those $19,000 somehow, you know, either in money or or benefits. And then I got a job that did have much fewer benefits, but more money in my paycheck each month. And I had the insurance through my husband. And so what I found is yeah, I like the dollars better in my paycheck. Yeah. I can see them and I know what to do with them. And, you know, I just, I just prefer and it worked. It I preferred it and it worked better, at least for that season of our lives. And so you really do have to not forget benefits, no matter any decision you're making about work in this country. If I think about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:31

My husband just he actually is starting a new job in a couple weeks, but while he was interviewing at different companies, he actually received a couple different offers, which was very exciting for him. But it's funny because for him, it was really like, let's compare benefits, like what makes sense because we heavily, you know, rely on his benefits with like my son has really severe food allergies and asthma. Um, and so we, you know, we have to see a pulmonologist and he's starting this new uh food allergy treatment program. And so um the benefits were just as important as income. Um that was a huge thing in making a decision on which way he wanted to move forward. Also, besides health benefits, honestly, PTO is another thing that was huge because um we You like to travel. Yeah. And so um having that time off made it makes a huge difference. Like there's companies out there where you only get one or two weeks a year um versus three or four weeks or whatever's out there. Um, and so that's a big thing too. So I think for anyone that's just you know thinking if they should start a company or just, you know, find uh work for a company. Um, you really just have to figure out what your priorities are as far as um just benefits, work-life balance, you know. The cool thing with having your own company is you do it is sort of like limitless with what you can do if you have that drive. Um that's what I love about it. Yeah, it's kind of limitless. Yeah, there's a lot of um opportunity out there, but I think it really depends on on what you want to do um and what you prioritize.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

Great points. I I want to talk, I want to name two different kinds of work philosophies and see if you lean towards one or the other or if you have your your own. Um so the first one is find what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. So that's one flaw. So make make sure you do work that you love. Or the other, another one, hardly anyone gets to have a job that's meaningful to them, and you should instead find work that pays for the life you want to live. So those are kind of two opposing ones. There's probably a billion others. What would you how would you describe your work philosophy?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Oh, that's a really hard one, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

It is. I thought you'd be like, oh, it's this. It's so what would I do I think that yours is? I know you pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Yeah. I don't know though. That's so hard because I feel like like if you find if you find something that you love to where you don't work, you don't feel like you work a day in your life, like does that take away though other things? So for example, being able to take my daughter to Japan next week, like is that gonna take away those, you know, opportunities. Um, but then also like to make the second philosophy to where, like, you know, you're not gonna like your job, but at least you make enough income. I guess it really depends too, like it's probably looking too deep into it, but like how much am I putting myself into this job? You know what I mean? Like, I guess for both philosophies, like, is this like a 40-hour work week or is this more? I don't know. I'm actually very torn with this.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:58

So this is reminding me of the time I don't think you were there. Were you at the happy hour we had at I'll call it FI, um, when Kelly asked everyone, would you rather have a job that you love um but you get to quit see a job that you tolerate, but you get to quit when you're 55, or a job you love and you can't quit till you're 70. And we all said love. I want the job I love and I'll do it till I'm 70. And then I went to bed that night and I was thinking to myself, I am such a freaking liar. I don't, I, or else I would like I don't I don't make finding a job I love the most important thing in the world because I stay in a lot of I have stayed in many jobs that I did not love enough to stay till 70, kind of thing. So I'm such a liar. But I talked to my son, my lawyer son, um, so he has a very logical mind, and he said, but those aren't the only two options. So I mean, you're not a liar. Like there's many other options in the world. Like you're working a job that is okay for this season, but maybe you will try to find a different thing later.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:04

Like I guess, yeah, that's true. And I guess that's like it's very like black and white, where there's so much more gray in and just with work in general. I think that's why it's very hard for me to answer that because it is like one way or another. And I don't I I feel like you can find an in-between where maybe you don't love your job, but you're comfortable with it. But you have a good enough job. Yeah, but you can still live the lifestyle that you want to live. I I can tell you this much. I definitely don't want to have a job that I hate and dread to live my lifestyle. That is something I I don't at all. But if I'm comfortable and I can still, you know, maybe I don't love it, but I can still have this lifestyle that creates memories and that I, you know, I get to live life still, I think I would go with in that direction. Um I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:02

You actually there's actually a book called The Good Enough Job that says exactly that. And I think that's probably explains your philosophy really well. I would also say you said earlier you have always had work that you know uh your family, it will not interfere with your family life. Yeah. So it's very true. You yeah, you definitely think think of it that way too. Yeah. Um, we didn't talk about something like like your past understanding of work and what you're gonna talk to your kids about jobs and stuff, but um I don't like want to go too long. I want to have you back sometime too, and we'll talk even more. So I think I'm gonna save some of that. Um talk for a second to your target audience, like people you would love to work with, and tell like who who are they and how do they find you? Okay, are you talking specifically for like clients? Either way, like are you looking for more clients? And so you kind of want to talk to that, or do you want to talk to respondents?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:09

Oh, okay. Well, I would say both. Um like for clients, like basically any type of researcher or company that's looking for participants for their research studies, like I'd love to help them out. Um, we do specialize in recruiting in recruiting like professionals, but also just consumer studies and niche audiences for specifically qualitative um research across the country. Um, and I'm always looking to build partnerships with clients. Um, so you can definitely um our website insightrecruit.com, um, there's um a form that you can fill out if you want to to reach out to us. Um and then for participants or potential participants, um, so anyone that enjoys like sharing their opinions or professional experience or expertise, um, we do have these paid research studies. Our studies are always paid too. Um, and so you're compensated for your time and for your insights. Um, and so you can actually also go to our website, insight recruit uh insightrecruit.com, and there's a um link that you click on to do a really brief survey. I've taken it myself to test it, and it takes less than a minute. Um so and you can basically join our panel that way. We also have a face Facebook page and a LinkedIn page. Um, but and then I you can always connect with me on LinkedIn too for either clients or future participants. Um, but I would definitely check out the website for either or. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:46

Yeah. Yay. I hope we get you some. Well, I don't know if I hope we get you some business. I may never talk to you again if you get more business. It just isn't already like that last section we talked about. We need to talk more about offline because I just need to really hash that out with you about loving jobs or not loving jobs and when you should leave and lay so many thoughts, you know. So you so I do want her to get more business, everyone, but not so much that I can't have my friend. So just I'll prevent it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:18

But apparently I need to help you say no. I know that's true. It's pretty comical when I do try to say no sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:27

It's pretty comical. Oh my gosh. Oh yes. It happens. What? Okay, so I told you that we were gonna talk about this. What I like to do, a section called It Worked For Me, where you have a recommendation for an aha moment in your life or regular things that help you find meaning in life. Did we talk about this right before we started this call? Sort of. Yes. And you said, I actually need someone to tell me.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:54

Okay. I was like, I think, yeah, I I was like, I don't know how to answer that because I don't have that, I don't have an answer to that yet. Um, I'm still working on that for myself. I need to what I did earlier was um I need to actually work on things for myself. So um one of the things that I do is I like to work in my kitchen because my kids are on summer break. Um and so I like to be available for them or just be around when they're, you know, coming in for a snack or they're having lunch or they're watching a movie in the living room, or I just like to be there. Um so it's a blessing that I'm able to do that, but also it's not because I also don't know how to step away from work. My husband's insisting that I go back into the office because it says that I need to leave my work in the office. Um, and so that is um unfortunately something that I'm trying to work on for myself. Um just being so committed to my company and um doing the best that I can. I tend to have a hard time walking away when I need to. And so that's something that I'm trying to work on for myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:09

So I want, if you try that, I want you to report back because I could imagine it going both ways. I could imagine you saying, yeah, he was right. I needed to compartmentalize a little bit. I could also imagine you saying, no, the reason I work in the kitchen is so that the thing most important to me, how my kids are doing, is right in my face and I'm there for them. So it could, I could see it going either way because the truth is the second way more so than the first.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

You you think you'll go the second way? I think the second way. I think it's like, I think, I think it's gonna because I just know myself, I think it's gonna still be hard for me to walk away, but I just won't be as visible. Yeah, I know the corner of my house and my office. But I don't know, I really do want to work on it. It's something that um, especially now that we're going on, you know, two years and it's not as new, but um, I do need to to have more boundaries, I guess, with it. And so that's my goal. But I will definitely keep you posted on it. So yeah, keep me posted. I guess I'm sharing it with you because I okay, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

You have heard like one of my favorite people on the planet just talk about a lot of things. If you have advice for her about finding more meaning, but I have to say, Ashley, the thing that you did teach us the whole time as you were talking here, for one thing, is how to find meaning in your work. I mean, you you have you find meaning in the work, which is great. And uh, I mean, more than I'm able to in many ways. And then you also, like, as we've said, you know, you you definitely have your priorities straight about what you care about most, which is which is your family, and you make the work work for that. Uh so you do have much meaning. Meaning in your life. But I love the way you answered that. The is that just is that not the truth? I met this person once. She had a she was a single mom, three-year-old son, well, three-ish, you know. And he was three and good at it, as they say. And he was kind of throwing a little fit or something while she was my mom was trying to talk to her. And she said to my mom, um, pardon me, we're working on this about the kids that fit or whatever. And my mom, we just turned that into like a lesson for life. Like that's so brilliant to not not apologize for everything we are and that exists and our children. We're working on this. Like, that's our whole motto for humanity. We're just we're working on it. We're working on it. None of us have it all down. And that's what you said. You're like, I actually could use, I could, I need to work on this.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:47

And no, I totally agree. I think that um I I definitely think if you can recognize it, um and to just be mindful of it. So it's hard to change who you are. Um, but you can definitely, you know, it's hard to change who you are. So true. More aware.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:10

So that's what I'm gonna try to do. Okay. I want to end with this story that I love. I mean, even though it's because I think I'm so funny, but it's because I think you're so wonderful too. I want to tell a story about a time. So you were in communication with someone about a partnership, and I was trying to talk you into being a bit more demanding. And I said to you, you need to say what you need and don't apologize. Just say it and then sign off. That's how special I am, Ashley. I remember. Do you remember? Yes. Uh-huh. And I mean, I'm such a big talker. I would never sign an email that way, but that's how I feel about you. Like you're just that special that you should be able to just make your demands.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:53

Well, thank you. But I did learn something from that conversation. And we spoke about that earlier for just a moment. But I really do try to, it was really easy for me to say, oh, I'm so sorry, or, you know, oh, I apologize about that, or whatever. But I um am very mindful about that now. So I try to avoid saying that uh since that conversation and still be respectful and polite about it, but not necessarily apologizing for everything unless I truly I imparted wisdom about work. I have been mindful about that ever since I'm really cool. Yeah, so that's true. That's especially a tough moment too for me, and we we just laughed about it and it just meant so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

So oh, the laughing is my favorite part of our conversations. I laughter is seriously medicine, and I get this major boost every time I talk to you. Um, yeah, for everyone, apologizing, it's not me saying, Ashley and I are not saying do not be a respectful person, a person who owns up to your mistakes, nothing like that. But truly the words I'm sorry are can be off-putting, they do not sh show confidence, and they really don't help anyone most of the time in at work, especially in a work setting. And the science will tell you it is better to say, like instead of I'm so sorry I was late, it's thank you for your patience. Yes, you know, you just turn it around into just this confident thing, or um, instead of sometimes if someone catches a mistake, it's that I made in a document or something, it's thanks for catching that. I have fixed it. It's just thanks for catching it, let's move on. You know, it's not as big.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:36

So yeah, and if you do that, there's actually I've come across on like LinkedIn and other things, but there's you can probably just Google it, but there's um like sort of just recommendations of things like what Serenity said, like if you're running late to say, you know, thanks for your patience, and there's other similar situations that sort of just help you um I guess change up what you're trying to say um without saying that you're sorry. And eventually it becomes natural to you over time.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:06

Exactly. That's one thing I love is we get so used to how we say things. Yep. And we don't even think about whether they're uh one time I bumped into a friend um at a store and she said pardon or pardon me to someone as they and she told me she said, I'm trying to say pardon now instead of excuse me. And she didn't explain why. It in the moment I guess it just seemed obvious that it seemed more it seemed nicer to say pardon. I don't know. But I was thinking, oh my gosh, I could never do that. I'll and then I just decided to test it. Like, I'm just gonna see if I could change the way I do that, just to see if I'm capable of change. And I totally say pardon now. I never say excuse me, I always say pardon. Even if the other person says excuse me, I say, Oh, pardon. Yeah, it's just I don't, it's not that one's better than the other. I was just so proud to learn we can change.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:00

We can change our habit.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:02

So okay, so I thank you so much for squeezing me in. You're very, very busy advice.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:13

It took so long. So no.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:15

You just said I'm sorry, Ashley.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:18

That is sorry that I met because I you have I think I found the email that you wrote me, I think in May is when you reached out about this, and it's already July. So I am truly sorry that it took this long. Um, but I had so much fun chatting with you, like always, and I would love to come back if you ever wanted to do the chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:39

Actually, it if it was May, I'm sorry because I wanted you on this show from before I even like started the show. So I should have written to you last winter.

unknown 1:33:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

It's like I feel like I landed a famous person.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:53

Yeah, but no, it was official in May when you're like, all right, I want you on, and here's some you know things we can talk about. But yeah, you've been talking about this idea for a while, and I'm so happy that you went what that you went with it because it is it's natural for you. It's perfect. Thank you so much. Of course, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:11

All right, have a fabulous night, and um we'll talk more off microphones. Bye. Bye.